1 00:00:04,039 --> 00:00:02,300 embrace yourself because you're about to 2 00:00:06,230 --> 00:00:04,049 dive into another free first hour 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:06,240 episode of the higher side chats and we 4 00:00:08,810 --> 00:00:07,410 just want to let you know that whether 5 00:00:10,790 --> 00:00:08,820 you're looking for a companion through 6 00:00:12,410 --> 00:00:10,800 your paranoid insomnia entertaining 7 00:00:14,390 --> 00:00:12,420 yourself through one of life's mundane 8 00:00:16,099 --> 00:00:14,400 activities or trying to ward off the 9 00:00:18,710 --> 00:00:16,109 internal scream to all those sad 10 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:18,720 smothered Souls around the office THC is 11 00:00:22,130 --> 00:00:20,490 here and you should know that every 12 00:00:24,170 --> 00:00:22,140 episode of the higher side chats has an 13 00:00:26,540 --> 00:00:24,180 entire second hour four plus members 14 00:00:29,029 --> 00:00:26,550 sign up at the higher side chats plus 15 00:00:31,609 --> 00:00:29,039 calm and you get years of plus show 16 00:00:33,020 --> 00:00:31,619 archives lifetime forum access the 17 00:00:36,410 --> 00:00:33,030 special invite to Greg Carl woods 18 00:00:39,860 --> 00:00:36,420 monthly joint sessions mp3s of THC music 19 00:00:42,020 --> 00:00:39,870 and bonus episodes for videos and 10% 20 00:00:44,090 --> 00:00:42,030 off t-shirts grinders and whatever else 21 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:44,100 ends up in the higher side store it's 22 00:00:47,779 --> 00:00:45,450 eight dollars a month that you won't 23 00:00:49,729 --> 00:00:47,789 miss so become a plus member and treat 24 00:00:52,130 --> 00:00:49,739 yourself in these troubled times always 25 00:00:53,930 --> 00:00:52,140 action-packed and commercial free which 26 00:01:31,880 --> 00:00:53,940 means you'll unfortunately never hear my 27 00:01:33,770 --> 00:01:31,890 voice here we go again higher side 28 00:01:35,899 --> 00:01:33,780 shatters how the hell are you from sunny 29 00:01:37,850 --> 00:01:35,909 San Diego i'm greg carl wood and we're 30 00:01:39,649 --> 00:01:37,860 all well aware that we're born into a 31 00:01:41,330 --> 00:01:39,659 world where corporate behemoths through 32 00:01:43,789 --> 00:01:41,340 the land and whether we're talking about 33 00:01:46,550 --> 00:01:43,799 food medicine media or really any other 34 00:01:48,469 --> 00:01:46,560 crucial industry you can find a handful 35 00:01:50,719 --> 00:01:48,479 of companies steering their respective 36 00:01:53,389 --> 00:01:50,729 sectors towards private profit in a way 37 00:01:55,550 --> 00:01:53,399 from public good typically we see a 38 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:55,560 shocking amount of regulatory capture 39 00:01:59,510 --> 00:01:57,450 and the government agencies set up to 40 00:02:01,730 --> 00:01:59,520 police them a revolving door of 41 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:01,740 corporate loyalists moving into watchdog 42 00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:03,810 positions only to take the teeth out of 43 00:02:07,910 --> 00:02:05,310 them and clear a path for their true 44 00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:07,920 masters a slashing of crucial 45 00:02:11,900 --> 00:02:10,140 regulations and even a suppression of 46 00:02:13,580 --> 00:02:11,910 scientific testing that might show 47 00:02:15,770 --> 00:02:13,590 concerning results if 48 00:02:17,869 --> 00:02:15,780 they do the testing at all it's a 49 00:02:20,030 --> 00:02:17,879 template we can apply many places but 50 00:02:21,890 --> 00:02:20,040 few are as impactful or as 51 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:21,900 world-changing as the introduction of 52 00:02:26,509 --> 00:02:24,810 genetically engineered agriculture as if 53 00:02:28,339 --> 00:02:26,519 taken a page right out of the tobacco 54 00:02:30,559 --> 00:02:28,349 industry playbook the billion-dollar 55 00:02:33,530 --> 00:02:30,569 players responsible have invested 56 00:02:35,570 --> 00:02:33,540 heavily and lobbyists positive PR and 57 00:02:37,910 --> 00:02:35,580 media mouthpieces to convince you there 58 00:02:39,619 --> 00:02:37,920 is nothing to see here but one thing 59 00:02:42,470 --> 00:02:39,629 they don't have is the support of 60 00:02:44,839 --> 00:02:42,480 today's amazing guest Stephen M Druker a 61 00:02:46,940 --> 00:02:44,849 true champion of the people Stephen Drew 62 00:02:49,190 --> 00:02:46,950 Kerr is a public interest attorney who 63 00:02:52,190 --> 00:02:49,200 founded the Alliance for bio integrity 64 00:02:54,530 --> 00:02:52,200 and initiated a lawsuit in 1998 that 65 00:02:56,809 --> 00:02:54,540 forced the FDA to divulge its internal 66 00:02:59,449 --> 00:02:56,819 files on genetically engineered foods a 67 00:03:01,910 --> 00:02:59,459 telling trove of over forty thousand 68 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:01,920 pages of memos studies and most 69 00:03:06,470 --> 00:03:04,290 importantly warnings and concerns from 70 00:03:09,170 --> 00:03:06,480 FDA scientists that were ignored and 71 00:03:10,910 --> 00:03:09,180 suppressed by their superiors while the 72 00:03:12,860 --> 00:03:10,920 contents of these freshly available 73 00:03:15,559 --> 00:03:12,870 documents became the basis for his 74 00:03:17,569 --> 00:03:15,569 crucial book altered genes twisted truth 75 00:03:20,509 --> 00:03:17,579 how the venture to genetically engineer 76 00:03:22,610 --> 00:03:20,519 our food has subverted science corrupted 77 00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:22,620 government and systematically deceived 78 00:03:27,979 --> 00:03:25,470 the public a startling expose of an 79 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:27,989 enormous fraud in fact quite possibly 80 00:03:31,780 --> 00:03:30,510 the biggest and most damaging scientific 81 00:03:34,099 --> 00:03:31,790 fraud in history 82 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:34,109 Stephen is also now a prominent 83 00:03:39,259 --> 00:03:36,450 commentator on the risks and regulatory 84 00:03:41,180 --> 00:03:39,269 issues of GE foods and has served on the 85 00:03:42,890 --> 00:03:41,190 food safety panels at conferences 86 00:03:44,569 --> 00:03:42,900 conducted by the National Research 87 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:44,579 Council and the Food and Drug 88 00:03:48,890 --> 00:03:46,889 Administration he has been invited to 89 00:03:50,479 --> 00:03:48,900 speak at many universities and has met 90 00:03:52,460 --> 00:03:50,489 with government officials worldwide 91 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:52,470 including the United Kingdom's 92 00:03:56,839 --> 00:03:54,690 environmental Minister Canada's health 93 00:03:59,390 --> 00:03:56,849 minister and the heads of food safety 94 00:04:02,930 --> 00:03:59,400 for the UK France Ireland and Australia 95 00:04:05,330 --> 00:04:02,940 and in 2017 he also received a 96 00:04:07,759 --> 00:04:05,340 Luxembourg Peace Prize for outstanding 97 00:04:09,319 --> 00:04:07,769 work on behalf of the environment so 98 00:04:11,629 --> 00:04:09,329 let's break it down the activist 99 00:04:13,670 --> 00:04:11,639 attorney and the twisted truth revealer 100 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:13,680 himself Stephen welcome to the higher 101 00:04:18,409 --> 00:04:17,010 side Thank You Greg and thank you for 102 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:18,419 that nice introduction 103 00:04:25,610 --> 00:04:20,849 it's a pleasure to be talking with you 104 00:04:26,870 --> 00:04:25,620 in this fireside chat thank you and this 105 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:26,880 is a true honor for me 106 00:04:31,550 --> 00:04:29,730 book is required reading for anyone who 107 00:04:34,730 --> 00:04:31,560 really wants to get to the heart of this 108 00:04:37,370 --> 00:04:34,740 GMO issue and it's just covered in an 109 00:04:39,770 --> 00:04:37,380 avalanche of praise from doctors and 110 00:04:43,070 --> 00:04:39,780 biochemistry professors geneticists 111 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:43,080 engineers and even Jane Goodall who all 112 00:04:47,180 --> 00:04:44,610 pretty much say the same thing 113 00:04:50,810 --> 00:04:47,190 meticulously documented irrefutable 114 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:50,820 evidence clear and ironclad logic it 115 00:04:55,550 --> 00:04:53,610 really is impressive and I figured we 116 00:04:58,100 --> 00:04:55,560 could kick this off with a little more 117 00:05:00,650 --> 00:04:58,110 context for that journey your 118 00:05:03,770 --> 00:05:00,660 introduction to the book is entitled how 119 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:03,780 I reluctantly became an activist can you 120 00:05:08,030 --> 00:05:05,370 tell us a little bit about the path that 121 00:05:11,780 --> 00:05:08,040 led to this lawsuit and ultimately these 122 00:05:15,110 --> 00:05:11,790 documents being released well as the 123 00:05:18,470 --> 00:05:15,120 title stated it was with reluctance that 124 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:18,480 I actually got into this whole issue as 125 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:21,810 an activist I became concerned basically 126 00:05:30,470 --> 00:05:24,810 as the as the introduction explains in 127 00:05:32,870 --> 00:05:30,480 early 1996 I began doing something that 128 00:05:35,450 --> 00:05:32,880 unfortunately not enough Americans or 129 00:05:37,430 --> 00:05:35,460 people anywhere were doing and I began 130 00:05:40,220 --> 00:05:37,440 to learn the facts about this massive 131 00:05:42,980 --> 00:05:40,230 venture to reconfigure the genetic core 132 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:42,990 of the world's food supply and I had 133 00:05:47,930 --> 00:05:45,510 been concerned for many years with food 134 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:47,940 safety issues and I thought I was pretty 135 00:05:55,940 --> 00:05:52,170 up on them but I was somewhat blindsided 136 00:05:58,790 --> 00:05:55,950 by the the state of thee of this massive 137 00:06:03,010 --> 00:05:58,800 venture the massive Ag biotech venture 138 00:06:06,230 --> 00:06:03,020 at that point because I had no idea that 139 00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:06,240 there were plans underway and in fact 140 00:06:13,790 --> 00:06:10,080 crops in the pipeline about ready to be 141 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:13,800 released with genetically engineered DNA 142 00:06:21,230 --> 00:06:17,250 and I wanted to know more about what was 143 00:06:22,910 --> 00:06:21,240 happening and as the introduction states 144 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:22,920 the more I learned the more I became 145 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:26,850 concerned and it did become quickly 146 00:06:33,020 --> 00:06:29,490 rather quickly apparent that there was a 147 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:33,030 major gap between the claims that were 148 00:06:37,580 --> 00:06:35,370 being made by the proponents of genetic 149 00:06:43,879 --> 00:06:37,590 engineered foods and the facts 150 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:43,889 themselves and I eventually realized 151 00:06:49,790 --> 00:06:47,850 that one thing that that I thought could 152 00:06:52,610 --> 00:06:49,800 be very effective in trying to slow down 153 00:06:55,719 --> 00:06:52,620 the juggernaut was a lawsuit against the 154 00:06:59,240 --> 00:06:55,729 Food and Drug Administration the FDA 155 00:07:04,150 --> 00:06:59,250 challenging their policy because the FDA 156 00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:04,160 had made a presumption in 1992 that 157 00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:06,510 basically all genetically engineered 158 00:07:12,850 --> 00:07:10,440 foods would be safe and that they could 159 00:07:15,379 --> 00:07:12,860 basically just give them a blanket 160 00:07:19,730 --> 00:07:15,389 presumption of generally recognized as 161 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:19,740 safe and they were pretty much given a 162 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:22,650 green light for the manufacturers just 163 00:07:28,820 --> 00:07:27,330 to dump any Ge Ge food on the american 164 00:07:32,029 --> 00:07:28,830 market that they wanted to without 165 00:07:34,159 --> 00:07:32,039 without having to go through any safety 166 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:34,169 testing at all and without providing 167 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:38,690 labels to inform the consumers about the 168 00:07:45,370 --> 00:07:42,210 genetic configurations that had that had 169 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:45,380 been done to their foods and I really 170 00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:47,970 didn't touch that didn't sit well with 171 00:07:51,110 --> 00:07:49,470 me it didn't sit well with a lot of 172 00:07:54,710 --> 00:07:51,120 other people who understood what was 173 00:07:57,730 --> 00:07:54,720 going on I did not envision myself as 174 00:08:01,400 --> 00:07:57,740 playing a key role in the lawsuit 175 00:08:03,110 --> 00:08:01,410 because I hadn't really been involved in 176 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:03,120 litigation although I have a law degree 177 00:08:08,390 --> 00:08:05,370 from University of California Berkeley 178 00:08:12,170 --> 00:08:08,400 I hadn't been practicing law and I 179 00:08:14,180 --> 00:08:12,180 hadn't done any litigation and I was 180 00:08:17,150 --> 00:08:14,190 involved in some other project dur to my 181 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:17,160 heart so my goal was just to get some 182 00:08:22,790 --> 00:08:20,370 public interest group inspired a group 183 00:08:25,730 --> 00:08:22,800 that had the resources and left them to 184 00:08:28,159 --> 00:08:25,740 the lawsuit and that's how I began was 185 00:08:30,469 --> 00:08:28,169 just contacting public interest groups 186 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:30,479 trying to get them sold on the idea of 187 00:08:36,079 --> 00:08:33,650 doing a lawsuit as it turns out 188 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:36,089 everybody with whom I spoke thought it 189 00:08:39,829 --> 00:08:38,610 was a great idea to do the lawsuit but 190 00:08:41,630 --> 00:08:39,839 they also thought I actually was 191 00:08:44,449 --> 00:08:41,640 planning to do it and I was just trying 192 00:08:46,610 --> 00:08:44,459 to inform them about it and when I said 193 00:08:48,410 --> 00:08:46,620 no I'm trying to get you to do it they 194 00:08:49,759 --> 00:08:48,420 always had one or another reason 195 00:08:51,230 --> 00:08:49,769 as to why they weren't prepared their 196 00:08:54,949 --> 00:08:51,240 group wasn't prepared to do it 197 00:08:58,550 --> 00:08:54,959 eventually in speaking with a friend who 198 00:09:00,889 --> 00:08:58,560 was a molecular biologist and explaining 199 00:09:03,050 --> 00:09:00,899 the situation to him you know he said 200 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:03,060 Steve you know you've got to realize 201 00:09:06,769 --> 00:09:04,170 this is your baby 202 00:09:09,230 --> 00:09:06,779 you have the idea you have the the 203 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:09,240 enthusiasm and if you don't do it it's 204 00:09:15,079 --> 00:09:12,810 not going to happen and much as I didn't 205 00:09:17,180 --> 00:09:15,089 want to accept that assessment 206 00:09:21,110 --> 00:09:17,190 deep down I had a feeling it was right 207 00:09:23,449 --> 00:09:21,120 and so I decided well I guess I'm going 208 00:09:26,780 --> 00:09:23,459 to have to to start the public interest 209 00:09:30,530 --> 00:09:26,790 organization that'll basically spearhead 210 00:09:33,410 --> 00:09:30,540 this lawsuit so I'm in September of 1996 211 00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:33,420 I founded the Alliance for bio integrity 212 00:09:40,790 --> 00:09:36,510 and as its president and executive 213 00:09:43,540 --> 00:09:40,800 director began to move ahead vigorously 214 00:09:46,460 --> 00:09:43,550 to to basically mount the lawsuit to 215 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:46,470 assemble the financial resources to get 216 00:09:54,350 --> 00:09:50,130 plaintiffs together and it took until 217 00:09:56,930 --> 00:09:54,360 May of 1998 until that suit was filed in 218 00:10:00,350 --> 00:09:56,940 federal district court and in Washington 219 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:00,360 DC and a very key component of being 220 00:10:05,329 --> 00:10:03,570 able to have that suit filed was having 221 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:05,339 attracted the attention of the 222 00:10:10,460 --> 00:10:07,529 International Center for Technology 223 00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:10,470 Assessment in Washington DC a very good 224 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:12,510 public interest group they had a good 225 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:15,570 legal team they they were skilled at 226 00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:17,490 bringing lawsuits against federal 227 00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:20,430 administrative agencies they liked the 228 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:22,800 idea of the lawsuit and they became an 229 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:25,970 involved as attorneys of record I 230 00:10:30,170 --> 00:10:27,110 besides 231 00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:30,180 organizing the main components of the 232 00:10:34,819 --> 00:10:32,480 plaintiffs plaintiff group and and 233 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:34,829 raising a lot of the initial funding 234 00:10:38,740 --> 00:10:36,569 that was needed I eventually became 235 00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:38,750 involved as a lawyer too and spent 236 00:10:45,290 --> 00:10:41,839 several months really in Washington DC 237 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:45,300 collaborating with that organization and 238 00:10:49,970 --> 00:10:47,610 doing some of the important research on 239 00:10:52,340 --> 00:10:49,980 the food safety issues and helping write 240 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:52,350 the the legal documents and the briefs 241 00:10:58,670 --> 00:10:55,050 that were filed with the court mm-hmm 242 00:11:01,670 --> 00:10:58,680 yes noble use of your skills with a huge 243 00:11:03,530 --> 00:11:01,680 impact because now we know much more 244 00:11:06,829 --> 00:11:03,540 then we did then which will of course 245 00:11:08,540 --> 00:11:06,839 get into and as well as reading your 246 00:11:10,730 --> 00:11:08,550 book I've also heard some of the 247 00:11:12,889 --> 00:11:10,740 presentations you've given and in one 248 00:11:16,309 --> 00:11:12,899 instance you started it by asking people 249 00:11:18,499 --> 00:11:16,319 to imagine a miraculous situation in 250 00:11:21,019 --> 00:11:18,509 which everyone's opinions on GMOs 251 00:11:23,359 --> 00:11:21,029 becomes consistent with our best 252 00:11:25,129 --> 00:11:23,369 scientific knowledge rather than the 253 00:11:27,769 --> 00:11:25,139 rhetoric because then we'd all be 254 00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:27,779 concerned and I really love that because 255 00:11:33,710 --> 00:11:31,110 the criticism so often hurled at GMO 256 00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:33,720 skeptics is that it's our arguments that 257 00:11:38,809 --> 00:11:36,089 are not scientific and we should just 258 00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:38,819 defer to the experts hope people 259 00:11:44,449 --> 00:11:40,800 understand how that is actually 260 00:11:46,759 --> 00:11:44,459 backwards right well thank you for 261 00:11:49,639 --> 00:11:46,769 listening to some of my presentations 262 00:11:51,169 --> 00:11:49,649 and you're right that's that's the way 263 00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:51,179 I've begun several talks 264 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:53,519 I think it's effective because as you 265 00:12:00,619 --> 00:11:56,490 say what we continually hear through the 266 00:12:03,230 --> 00:12:00,629 media is that there's a tremendous size 267 00:12:05,419 --> 00:12:03,240 of a consensus and that all the sciences 268 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:05,429 on the side of the the safety of these 269 00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:08,370 foods and that you you one one here 270 00:12:13,819 --> 00:12:10,860 scientists complaining time and again 271 00:12:17,239 --> 00:12:13,829 that oh if scientists who propound these 272 00:12:19,939 --> 00:12:17,249 foods who advocate these foods if only 273 00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:19,949 the public understood the facts then 274 00:12:25,220 --> 00:12:22,230 there wouldn't be any of this opposition 275 00:12:27,079 --> 00:12:25,230 and that if the public were adequately 276 00:12:30,019 --> 00:12:27,089 informed all the opposition would 277 00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:30,029 disappear and as I show in those talks 278 00:12:37,549 --> 00:12:33,600 and as my book fully demonstrates very 279 00:12:39,769 --> 00:12:37,559 very fully demonstrates actually as you 280 00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:39,779 said is just the other way around if the 281 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:43,279 public and the our government 282 00:12:48,769 --> 00:12:46,110 decision-makers actually understood the 283 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:48,779 facts if their opinions were in line 284 00:12:53,329 --> 00:12:50,370 with the best scientific knowledge 285 00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:53,339 available then the phenomenon that would 286 00:12:57,259 --> 00:12:55,470 quickly vanish would not be the 287 00:13:00,769 --> 00:12:57,269 opposition to genetically engineered 288 00:13:05,059 --> 00:13:00,779 foods but the food's themselves and that 289 00:13:09,079 --> 00:13:05,069 is why despite their you know purporting 290 00:13:10,730 --> 00:13:09,089 to want to educate people the proponents 291 00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:10,740 of genetically engineered food whether 292 00:13:16,940 --> 00:13:12,870 they're an industry or inside 293 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:16,950 whether they are in universities or 294 00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:19,770 scientific institutions if they're 295 00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:21,600 pushing genetically engineered foods 296 00:13:27,140 --> 00:13:24,300 then they almost always are 297 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:27,150 misrepresenting key facts and at minimum 298 00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:30,770 suppressing key facts and instead of 299 00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:33,060 educating the public as they claim to 300 00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:36,390 wish to do they're actually keeping the 301 00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:39,360 the public in the dark to a significant 302 00:13:46,370 --> 00:13:42,540 extent and often significantly confused 303 00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:46,380 and misled and it's one of the major 304 00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:49,550 themes of my book that this massive 305 00:13:55,580 --> 00:13:53,310 venture to reconfigure the genetic core 306 00:13:58,270 --> 00:13:55,590 of the world's food supply although it 307 00:14:02,690 --> 00:13:58,280 purports to rest on solid science 308 00:14:06,170 --> 00:14:02,700 actually rests on ignoring science in to 309 00:14:08,630 --> 00:14:06,180 a large extent subverting science and it 310 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:08,640 really rests on a foundation of 311 00:14:14,060 --> 00:14:11,910 falsehood and fraud and it could not 312 00:14:16,670 --> 00:14:14,070 stand an honest airing of the facts it 313 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:16,680 would quickly collapse mm-hmm very well 314 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:19,730 said and exactly as you just mentioned 315 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:22,530 your book does cover a lot of ground but 316 00:14:27,650 --> 00:14:24,810 you do say the key fraud in all this in 317 00:14:29,090 --> 00:14:27,660 plain language is that as genetically 318 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:29,100 engineered agriculture was being 319 00:14:34,670 --> 00:14:31,410 developed the memos and the warnings of 320 00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:34,680 FDA employed scientists in the lab were 321 00:14:38,630 --> 00:14:36,480 suppressed by their superiors who lied 322 00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:38,640 and said these foods were different in 323 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:41,100 no significant way and I really want 324 00:14:47,090 --> 00:14:44,010 people to understand that point can you 325 00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:47,100 elaborate on some of the evidence for 326 00:14:52,970 --> 00:14:49,110 that that maybe came through in those 327 00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:52,980 documents that were disclosed sure and I 328 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:55,260 mentioned that that was the key fraud 329 00:15:01,880 --> 00:14:58,170 and it was because as I mentioned 330 00:15:04,730 --> 00:15:01,890 earlier in this chat it was in May of 331 00:15:07,730 --> 00:15:04,740 1992 that the US Food and Drug 332 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:07,740 Administration basically got the jump on 333 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:11,130 all of the other major food regulatory 334 00:15:18,380 --> 00:15:15,210 agencies in other countries and became 335 00:15:22,430 --> 00:15:18,390 really the first major to my knowledge 336 00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:22,440 the first major governmental food 337 00:15:26,270 --> 00:15:25,260 regulatory agency to take a public 338 00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:26,280 position 339 00:15:32,090 --> 00:15:28,860 on genetically engineered foods and they 340 00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:32,100 declared that there was basically a an 341 00:15:37,010 --> 00:15:34,920 overwhelming consensus within the sides 342 00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:37,020 of the community that genetic 343 00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,270 engineering is essentially as safe as 344 00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:43,440 traditional breeding techniques in 345 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:44,910 creating new varieties of foods 346 00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:47,970 basically at least is safe if not safer 347 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:51,360 than just pollen based reproduction 348 00:15:55,820 --> 00:15:53,250 through naturally available sexual 349 00:15:59,060 --> 00:15:55,830 pathways which is the way farmers have 350 00:16:02,090 --> 00:15:59,070 been producing new varieties for in 351 00:16:06,020 --> 00:16:02,100 millennia just letting it happen through 352 00:16:09,170 --> 00:16:06,030 pollen and natural reproduction they 353 00:16:11,780 --> 00:16:09,180 said even that the genetic engineering 354 00:16:15,620 --> 00:16:11,790 is essentially no different and at least 355 00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:15,630 is safe they also stated that the agency 356 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:19,440 was not aware of any information showing 357 00:16:23,830 --> 00:16:20,970 that foods produced through genetic 358 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:23,840 engineering techniques differ in any 359 00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:26,310 uniform or meaningful way from other 360 00:16:32,690 --> 00:16:28,790 foods now that was an outright lie 361 00:16:36,170 --> 00:16:32,700 because as you've mentioned on discovery 362 00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:36,180 early on in the lawsuit the FDA was 363 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:38,580 compelled to hand over all of their 364 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:42,930 internal files relative to their policy 365 00:16:47,420 --> 00:16:45,450 on genetically engineered foods and I 366 00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:47,430 think in the future I'll just be often 367 00:16:52,670 --> 00:16:49,680 referring to them as GMOs it's shorthand 368 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:52,680 but I mean by that when I say GMOs in 369 00:16:56,570 --> 00:16:54,330 the context of this broadcast 370 00:17:00,620 --> 00:16:56,580 I mean genetically engineered or 371 00:17:04,910 --> 00:17:00,630 genetically modified foods so but that 372 00:17:09,620 --> 00:17:04,920 was actually a major lie because I found 373 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:09,630 in going through the files as you 374 00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:13,170 mentioned was over 40,000 pages there 375 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:15,780 were many memos from the FDA's own 376 00:17:21,410 --> 00:17:19,170 experts whom the FDA had asked to 377 00:17:23,449 --> 00:17:21,420 actually review the issue and they did 378 00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:23,459 review it and they actually thought the 379 00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,910 FDA wanted them to function as 380 00:17:30,650 --> 00:17:28,079 responsible scientists which they did 381 00:17:32,450 --> 00:17:30,660 and being responsible scientists they 382 00:17:35,020 --> 00:17:32,460 could recognize that there are 383 00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:35,030 significant differences between 384 00:17:38,649 --> 00:17:37,230 producing foods through conventional 385 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:38,659 means and 386 00:17:45,450 --> 00:17:40,970 loosen them through recombinant DNA 387 00:17:49,089 --> 00:17:45,460 techniques or genetic engineering and 388 00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,099 they they cautioned they issued many 389 00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:51,679 cautions they explained how the genetic 390 00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:54,799 engineering process is not as precise 391 00:17:59,529 --> 00:17:56,720 and predictable as its proponents 392 00:18:02,589 --> 00:17:59,539 claimed they stated there was a risk of 393 00:18:04,899 --> 00:18:02,599 unintended side-effects anytime that 394 00:18:08,859 --> 00:18:04,909 that technique was used to produce a new 395 00:18:12,339 --> 00:18:08,869 food and explained how food bearing 396 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:12,349 organisms are complicated that their DNA 397 00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:14,570 can be disrupted that there are several 398 00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,049 different ways in which deleterious side 399 00:18:24,719 --> 00:18:20,720 effects could be created and that in 400 00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:24,729 total in the in the holistic viewpoint 401 00:18:30,820 --> 00:18:27,769 the risks were going to be not only 402 00:18:33,879 --> 00:18:30,830 different but greater and that the foods 403 00:18:35,979 --> 00:18:33,889 needed to be tested carefully because 404 00:18:39,609 --> 00:18:35,989 especially there could be risks of 405 00:18:42,879 --> 00:18:39,619 unintended new toxins new toxic 406 00:18:46,149 --> 00:18:42,889 poisonous substances that were generated 407 00:18:48,369 --> 00:18:46,159 within that plant that had never been 408 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:48,379 even in that species before it might 409 00:18:52,659 --> 00:18:50,090 have never even been seen on the face of 410 00:18:56,879 --> 00:18:52,669 the earth before so be very difficult 411 00:18:59,169 --> 00:18:56,889 for them to be detected through 412 00:19:02,529 --> 00:18:59,179 superficial inspections that there would 413 00:19:06,249 --> 00:19:02,539 need to be rigorous testing of the whole 414 00:19:08,889 --> 00:19:06,259 food the whole food and to make sure 415 00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:08,899 that it was actually safe and they also 416 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:12,080 stated that in addition to novel toxins 417 00:19:17,589 --> 00:19:14,450 there could be novel allergens as well 418 00:19:19,719 --> 00:19:17,599 and that again the allergenic potential 419 00:19:22,330 --> 00:19:19,729 of these foods would be very difficult 420 00:19:25,869 --> 00:19:22,340 to assess in fact the FDA's own 421 00:19:28,089 --> 00:19:25,879 biotechnology management manager stated 422 00:19:30,999 --> 00:19:28,099 that very clearly at a letter to a 423 00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:31,009 Canadian Health official in either 424 00:19:36,820 --> 00:19:34,849 September or October of 1991 that the 425 00:19:39,820 --> 00:19:36,830 allergenic potential would be hard to 426 00:19:42,669 --> 00:19:39,830 predict he also acknowledged that at 427 00:19:44,259 --> 00:19:42,679 that point there was not a consensus 428 00:19:47,049 --> 00:19:44,269 about safety in the size of the 429 00:19:48,999 --> 00:19:47,059 community clear consensus that even 430 00:19:51,849 --> 00:19:49,009 outside of the FDA there was not 431 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:51,859 assigned to the consensus and he knew 432 00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:52,290 full 433 00:19:57,230 --> 00:19:55,110 well that within the FDA to the extent 434 00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:57,240 that there was a consensus it was that 435 00:20:02,180 --> 00:19:59,760 these foods until unique risks in fact 436 00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:02,190 that was the consensus of the FDA 437 00:20:06,620 --> 00:20:04,140 scientists that were on the 438 00:20:10,790 --> 00:20:06,630 biotechnology task force carefully 439 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:10,800 studying the issue so so strong so 440 00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:13,290 pervasive was that consensus within the 441 00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:18,000 FDA that an FDA biotechnology I'm sure 442 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:21,360 an FDA compliance officer whose job it 443 00:20:27,580 --> 00:20:24,330 was to review all of the data all of the 444 00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:27,590 memos wrote in a very strong memo to the 445 00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:30,600 biotechnology coordinator in January of 446 00:20:37,580 --> 00:20:35,280 1992 that the processes of genetic 447 00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:37,590 engineering and traditional breeding are 448 00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:39,900 different and according to the technical 449 00:20:45,370 --> 00:20:42,510 experts in the agency they lead to 450 00:20:48,410 --> 00:20:45,380 different risks a very strong statement 451 00:20:51,740 --> 00:20:48,420 but what happened a few months later the 452 00:20:53,690 --> 00:20:51,750 FDA the FDA's administrators decision 453 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:53,700 makers came out with that policy 454 00:20:59,060 --> 00:20:56,370 statement stating that they were not 455 00:21:01,250 --> 00:20:59,070 aware of any information showing that 456 00:21:04,330 --> 00:21:01,260 genetically engineered foods differed in 457 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:04,340 any uniform or meaningful way now I 458 00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:08,250 think we could all agree that memos from 459 00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:10,740 your own scientists counters information 460 00:21:17,290 --> 00:21:13,230 and that the statement the FDA mades 461 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:17,300 counts as disinformation so and also 462 00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:19,890 again the claim that these foods were 463 00:21:24,110 --> 00:21:21,840 generally recognized as safe within the 464 00:21:27,410 --> 00:21:24,120 sides of the community again was a 465 00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:27,420 fraudulent claim because they knew that 466 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:31,200 again as what I've said shows the 467 00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:33,450 overwhelming consensus within the FDA's 468 00:21:39,050 --> 00:21:36,390 own scientific staff was these foods are 469 00:21:41,470 --> 00:21:39,060 different and they entail unique risk 470 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:41,480 greater risks and the FDA's own 471 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:43,370 biotechnology coordinator had 472 00:21:48,110 --> 00:21:46,170 acknowledged there was not a consensus 473 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:48,120 about safety in the size of the 474 00:21:54,170 --> 00:21:51,450 community so really a major double lie 475 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:54,180 was told there but the FDA got away with 476 00:22:01,160 --> 00:21:57,690 it and nobody knew really the extent to 477 00:22:03,170 --> 00:22:01,170 which that was a lie until we were able 478 00:22:05,030 --> 00:22:03,180 to get our hands on the FDA's met 479 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:05,040 internal files 480 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:07,050 more people would know about that if the 481 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:10,050 mainstream American media had reported 482 00:22:15,530 --> 00:22:12,330 that it certainly has been reported to 483 00:22:19,130 --> 00:22:15,540 them I have given the media the major 484 00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,140 media outlets solid documentation of the 485 00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:21,600 FDA's frauds and they've covered it up 486 00:22:25,490 --> 00:22:24,000 consistently unfortunately that's an 487 00:22:28,190 --> 00:22:25,500 entire chapter in the book the 488 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:28,200 malfunction of the mainstream American 489 00:22:33,650 --> 00:22:30,650 media and unfortunately they've fallen 490 00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:33,660 fallen down on the job when it comes to 491 00:22:41,690 --> 00:22:38,640 exposing the risks of GMOs yes they very 492 00:22:43,370 --> 00:22:41,700 much have and that's a great summary I 493 00:22:46,130 --> 00:22:43,380 really love drilling home the fact that 494 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:46,140 the FDA knew because government often 495 00:22:52,610 --> 00:22:50,010 hides behind ignorant or incompetence 496 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:52,620 and it's nice to have that paper trail 497 00:22:58,570 --> 00:22:55,770 that shows that there was prior 498 00:23:02,240 --> 00:22:58,580 knowledge but it seems like with the 499 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:02,250 technique itself one of the foundational 500 00:23:07,130 --> 00:23:04,050 issues is that these scientists are 501 00:23:08,870 --> 00:23:07,140 taught this mindset that an organism is 502 00:23:11,180 --> 00:23:08,880 like a puzzle where you can just take 503 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:11,190 out a piece here replace a piece there 504 00:23:16,130 --> 00:23:13,890 and it doesn't have an effect on the 505 00:23:20,330 --> 00:23:16,140 whole of the organism but in truth 506 00:23:23,780 --> 00:23:20,340 nature is complex and holistic and it's 507 00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:23,790 not plug-and-play in fact sometimes its 508 00:23:28,340 --> 00:23:25,950 own defenses are triggered when there's 509 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:28,350 something inside of it that shouldn't be 510 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:32,610 there naturally so this is kind of how 511 00:23:38,780 --> 00:23:36,570 toxins emerge that aren't expected just 512 00:23:42,410 --> 00:23:38,790 by doing even small tweaks to these 513 00:23:45,370 --> 00:23:42,420 organisms correct it could be that's the 514 00:23:47,930 --> 00:23:45,380 case and in fact the very first 515 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:47,940 ingestible product that was created 516 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:52,050 through a genetic engineering was a food 517 00:23:57,740 --> 00:23:54,570 supplement of the essential amino acid 518 00:24:01,820 --> 00:23:57,750 l-tryptophan which actually came to the 519 00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:01,830 market in the mid-1980s and actually was 520 00:24:08,660 --> 00:24:05,760 creating some serious illnesses we 521 00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:08,670 didn't we meaning the the scientific 522 00:24:15,290 --> 00:24:12,960 community and medical community what 523 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:15,300 didn't become aware of the of the 524 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:18,570 problem until a very strong 525 00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:20,970 a much stronger version of genetically 526 00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:23,310 engineered bacteria that was producing 527 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:26,670 this supplement were used so there were 528 00:24:31,490 --> 00:24:29,130 genetically engineered bacteria they 529 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:31,500 were being they had been given some 530 00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:34,170 extra copies of their own genes wasn't 531 00:24:39,860 --> 00:24:36,510 even foreign genetic material that was 532 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:39,870 put in but they were being forced and 533 00:24:45,020 --> 00:24:41,910 I'm not and I'm using that term 534 00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:45,030 advisedly they were being forced to over 535 00:24:49,550 --> 00:24:46,740 produce something they ordinarily 536 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:49,560 produce anyway but when they ordinarily 537 00:24:54,170 --> 00:24:51,930 produce it it's safe for them and it can 538 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:54,180 be harvested from them and put into 539 00:24:58,880 --> 00:24:56,490 supplements none of the supplements 540 00:25:02,870 --> 00:24:58,890 produced through conventional bacteria 541 00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:02,880 had ever caused problems but the 542 00:25:08,180 --> 00:25:04,760 supplements produced through these 543 00:25:10,970 --> 00:25:08,190 bacteria that were hyper producing hyper 544 00:25:14,810 --> 00:25:10,980 producing that amino acid because 545 00:25:17,810 --> 00:25:14,820 through genetic engineering did create 546 00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:17,820 not only a problem but a major epidemic 547 00:25:27,170 --> 00:25:22,400 so when the epidemic was was created in 548 00:25:29,630 --> 00:25:27,180 1989 and 1990 then finally it came to 549 00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:29,640 the attention it popped up people 550 00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:31,830 looking back could see that there were 551 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:34,470 even problems in the earlier in the 552 00:25:39,290 --> 00:25:37,050 earlier supplements were produced from 553 00:25:42,170 --> 00:25:39,300 bacteria that had not been pushed quite 554 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:42,180 so hard but they had been pushed too 555 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:44,610 hard abnormally hard but when they 556 00:25:49,580 --> 00:25:46,770 really jacked it up really hyper 557 00:25:52,250 --> 00:25:49,590 produced were forced to produce that's 558 00:25:55,010 --> 00:25:52,260 when the problem reached epidemic 559 00:25:58,490 --> 00:25:55,020 proportions now getting back to your 560 00:26:00,890 --> 00:25:58,500 initial question that was compared to 561 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:00,900 most genetically engineered foods a 562 00:26:07,490 --> 00:26:03,930 fairly minor tweak because us said it 563 00:26:11,180 --> 00:26:07,500 was just extra copies of the bacterias 564 00:26:14,210 --> 00:26:11,190 own genes who were used in creating by 565 00:26:15,710 --> 00:26:14,220 in synthesizing the old tryptophan the 566 00:26:18,740 --> 00:26:15,720 thing that was different was they were 567 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:18,750 being forced to produce it much more 568 00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:21,690 rapidly than they usually do and in much 569 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:23,840 greater quantities and that apparently 570 00:26:31,260 --> 00:26:26,850 the best scientific evidence points to 571 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:31,270 that as having created a destabilization 572 00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:34,090 in the bacteria's metabolism that led to 573 00:26:38,490 --> 00:26:36,000 the creation of some unusual 574 00:26:40,980 --> 00:26:38,500 contaminants at least one of which was 575 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:40,990 highly toxic at a very low level of 576 00:26:46,740 --> 00:26:43,690 concentration in fact another sobering 577 00:26:49,230 --> 00:26:46,750 fact is those supplements those 578 00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:49,240 l-tryptophan supplements were refined 579 00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:51,520 products they weren't like whole foods 580 00:26:57,260 --> 00:26:54,880 they were refined and they were tested 581 00:26:59,940 --> 00:26:57,270 to be pharmacopoeia pure 582 00:27:03,480 --> 00:26:59,950 pharmacologically pure their level of 583 00:27:06,030 --> 00:27:03,490 purity was such that even had there been 584 00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:06,040 toxic contaminants they should have been 585 00:27:10,050 --> 00:27:08,080 at such a low level of concentration 586 00:27:12,210 --> 00:27:10,060 that they should have caused any problem 587 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:12,220 anyway so from the standpoint of 588 00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:15,010 pharmacology those supplements were pure 589 00:27:19,410 --> 00:27:17,200 but from the standpoint of the human 590 00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:19,420 consumers were two men thousands of them 591 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:22,000 they weren't they were toxic they killed 592 00:27:26,490 --> 00:27:24,010 dozens of Americans and seriously 593 00:27:28,350 --> 00:27:26,500 sickened between four and five thousand 594 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:28,360 a court in the most recent estimates of 595 00:27:33,290 --> 00:27:31,090 the Center for Disease Control so they 596 00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:33,300 were not at all benign even they were 597 00:27:39,530 --> 00:27:37,030 pharmacologically pure that shows how 598 00:27:42,750 --> 00:27:39,540 important it is to do tests to make sure 599 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:42,760 that genetically engineered foods are 600 00:27:49,890 --> 00:27:45,970 safe that they don't harbor unusual 601 00:27:52,550 --> 00:27:49,900 toxicants at very low levels and that 602 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:52,560 kind of testing has not been required 603 00:27:58,890 --> 00:27:57,010 hmm yes I love that example it's one of 604 00:28:01,800 --> 00:27:58,900 the strongest points that I learned 605 00:28:03,660 --> 00:28:01,810 about from digesting your work because 606 00:28:06,270 --> 00:28:03,670 you always hear that there's no evidence 607 00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:06,280 that GMOs can be harmful to humans well 608 00:28:09,660 --> 00:28:07,870 you know except for this first 609 00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:09,670 genetically engineered product to ever 610 00:28:14,910 --> 00:28:12,310 hit the market which made 5,000 people 611 00:28:17,250 --> 00:28:14,920 seriously sick and hundreds of people 612 00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:17,260 still haven't recovered from like 613 00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:19,510 they'll just never be the same and as 614 00:28:24,780 --> 00:28:23,140 you said this is a pretty simple version 615 00:28:26,370 --> 00:28:24,790 of genetic engineering and it's like 616 00:28:30,180 --> 00:28:26,380 what does that really say about the 617 00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:30,190 risks of crossing genetics or species 618 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:32,080 that shouldn't even be in the same 619 00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:35,530 category if you have problems at even 620 00:28:40,410 --> 00:28:38,710 this base level yes it's a good point 621 00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:40,420 you've certainly done your homework Greg 622 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:42,559 and I appreciate that you 623 00:28:47,259 --> 00:28:44,450 read the book as thoroughly as you have 624 00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:47,269 and because what you're saying is very 625 00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:51,230 important and if I can amplify just a 626 00:28:56,980 --> 00:28:53,809 bit more in my points the genetically 627 00:29:00,220 --> 00:28:56,990 engineered food crops even if they and 628 00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,230 rarely are they just using genes from 629 00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:02,720 that species only even if they were that 630 00:29:06,820 --> 00:29:03,710 could be a problem 631 00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:06,830 because just about every genetically 632 00:29:11,919 --> 00:29:09,049 engineered food on the market is being 633 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:11,929 forced to over produce at least one 634 00:29:17,169 --> 00:29:13,850 product and usually more one gene 635 00:29:19,330 --> 00:29:17,179 product so and usually these genes are 636 00:29:23,470 --> 00:29:19,340 from foreign species genes that have 637 00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:23,480 never been in that species before and we 638 00:29:27,399 --> 00:29:25,039 don't know what a safe level of 639 00:29:31,389 --> 00:29:27,409 production of that gene is within that 640 00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:31,399 species but certainly they are being 641 00:29:36,369 --> 00:29:33,919 forced to over produce at a level that 642 00:29:39,009 --> 00:29:36,379 would raise concern even if it was just 643 00:29:42,730 --> 00:29:39,019 one of their own genes even if we didn't 644 00:29:44,830 --> 00:29:42,740 add any gene but just forced one one or 645 00:29:45,580 --> 00:29:44,840 two of the native genes to over produce 646 00:29:49,299 --> 00:29:45,590 like that 647 00:29:52,169 --> 00:29:49,309 that would entail a food safety risk so 648 00:29:57,070 --> 00:29:52,179 we've got that risk really multiplied 649 00:29:59,980 --> 00:29:57,080 amplified because not not only is our 650 00:30:02,259 --> 00:29:59,990 one or more genes being forced to hyper 651 00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:02,269 produce in these genetically engineered 652 00:30:08,259 --> 00:30:06,529 foods we don't really those genes as you 653 00:30:10,509 --> 00:30:08,269 said haven't been there before 654 00:30:13,090 --> 00:30:10,519 for the most part haven't been in that 655 00:30:17,259 --> 00:30:13,100 species so that can create additional 656 00:30:20,350 --> 00:30:17,269 problems in several respects right right 657 00:30:23,859 --> 00:30:20,360 and let me also ask you about the 658 00:30:26,649 --> 00:30:23,869 typical pro-gmo talking points that you 659 00:30:28,899 --> 00:30:26,659 have to combat because i'm sure they're 660 00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:28,909 the same arguments that some of us that 661 00:30:32,529 --> 00:30:30,769 are listening are going to get into or 662 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:32,539 here when we have these conversations 663 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:35,690 with friends and family what are some of 664 00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:38,330 the things that you hear most often and 665 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:42,950 how do you respond to them well one of 666 00:30:50,190 --> 00:30:45,730 the things of course is the claim that 667 00:30:52,690 --> 00:30:50,200 the FDA has carefully tested these 668 00:30:54,970 --> 00:30:52,700 because often the claim as the FDA has 669 00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:54,980 been doing careful testing or at least 670 00:30:57,740 --> 00:30:55,710 rigors 671 00:31:00,580 --> 00:30:57,750 regulating them and they say they're 672 00:31:03,019 --> 00:31:00,590 safe well of course the FDA actually 673 00:31:06,250 --> 00:31:03,029 first we know the FDA has been lied 674 00:31:08,510 --> 00:31:06,260 repeatedly they lied about the 675 00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:08,520 l-tryptophan incident as well they were 676 00:31:14,919 --> 00:31:12,080 one of the biggest liars that actually 677 00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:14,929 allowed the genetic engineering 678 00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:18,000 juggernaut to continue because if the 679 00:31:21,470 --> 00:31:20,399 facts on that epidemic had come out it 680 00:31:23,510 --> 00:31:21,480 would have really slowed everything 681 00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:23,520 probably would have stopped the whole 682 00:31:31,549 --> 00:31:26,159 genetic engineering food venture in its 683 00:31:34,519 --> 00:31:31,559 tracks but the FDA through a series of 684 00:31:36,860 --> 00:31:34,529 frauds on that was able to create a lot 685 00:31:39,070 --> 00:31:36,870 of confusion and fool people and they 686 00:31:41,539 --> 00:31:39,080 were working hand in glove with the 687 00:31:43,399 --> 00:31:41,549 industry it appears but they were 688 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:43,409 certainly doing the industry's work for 689 00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:43,890 them 690 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:47,100 the FDA by the way I should note has 691 00:31:54,049 --> 00:31:49,770 admitted in writing that it has an 692 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:54,059 agenda to promote biotechnology so it 693 00:31:58,760 --> 00:31:56,010 admits that and it has had that agenda 694 00:32:01,340 --> 00:31:58,770 since the 1980s during the Reagan 695 00:32:03,260 --> 00:32:01,350 administration and every successive 696 00:32:05,510 --> 00:32:03,270 presidential administration in the 697 00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:05,520 United States whether Republican or 698 00:32:12,049 --> 00:32:08,700 Democrat has continued to push the 699 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:12,059 promotional policy for the federal 700 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:14,850 executive agencies for the FDA for the 701 00:32:21,380 --> 00:32:17,970 USDA for the EPA they have all pushed it 702 00:32:23,659 --> 00:32:21,390 very strongly so and that is documented 703 00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:23,669 I'm not making that up it's not some 704 00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,159 wild conspiracy theory the FDA even 705 00:32:31,610 --> 00:32:28,559 admits that they have the policy to 706 00:32:33,799 --> 00:32:31,620 promote the biotechnology sector and 707 00:32:36,980 --> 00:32:33,809 they've done an excellent job of 708 00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:36,990 promoting it they've fallen flat on 709 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:40,080 their main responsibilities which is to 710 00:32:45,139 --> 00:32:42,570 protect the safety of our food and to 711 00:32:47,389 --> 00:32:45,149 behave in a scientific manner and uphold 712 00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:47,399 ethics they've been lying they've been 713 00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:49,860 ignoring science and they have sided 714 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:52,289 with the biotech industry instead of the 715 00:32:59,299 --> 00:32:56,130 American consumer and you know those are 716 00:33:01,610 --> 00:32:59,309 facts they're backed up in the book so 717 00:33:05,090 --> 00:33:01,620 you hear that a lot people actually 718 00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:05,100 think that the FDA has been actually 719 00:33:09,260 --> 00:33:07,260 doing tests they're not doing any 720 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:09,270 regulation on these foods at all 721 00:33:11,900 --> 00:33:09,810 they're 722 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:11,910 requiring any test to be made on them 723 00:33:15,460 --> 00:33:13,290 they certainly aren't performing their 724 00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:15,470 own tests and as the FDA's on 725 00:33:22,370 --> 00:33:18,720 biotechnology strategic manager once 726 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:22,380 admitted in writing the FDA what the FDA 727 00:33:28,130 --> 00:33:24,210 is doing what it does voluntary 728 00:33:30,590 --> 00:33:28,140 consultations it encourages Monsanto and 729 00:33:33,380 --> 00:33:30,600 DuPont and the other manufacturers to 730 00:33:35,150 --> 00:33:33,390 voluntarily consult with it about the 731 00:33:37,670 --> 00:33:35,160 various foods that they're going that 732 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:37,680 they want to release on our market but 733 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:40,290 that's a smokescreen it's to then give 734 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:43,650 the industry the the right to brag see 735 00:33:47,420 --> 00:33:45,090 we've actually gone through FDA 736 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:47,430 regulation but it's not regulation at 737 00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:51,090 all it's voluntary and as the FDA's own 738 00:33:56,780 --> 00:33:53,940 strategic manager is admitted it's not a 739 00:33:58,790 --> 00:33:56,790 scientific review at all because the FDA 740 00:34:01,610 --> 00:33:58,800 doesn't even require original test data 741 00:34:03,260 --> 00:34:01,620 they basically let them Monsanto give 742 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:03,270 them whatever they want to give them and 743 00:34:09,470 --> 00:34:06,450 they don't even formally approve of the 744 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:09,480 food they just state we understand that 745 00:34:15,650 --> 00:34:12,090 you think your food is safe so it's a 746 00:34:17,690 --> 00:34:15,660 sham process to give the illusion that 747 00:34:20,270 --> 00:34:17,700 there's some real regulation going on 748 00:34:23,390 --> 00:34:20,280 and again it's it's bamboozled a lot of 749 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:23,400 people so that's one one claim that I 750 00:34:27,350 --> 00:34:26,130 hear a lot it's easy to refute if people 751 00:34:29,810 --> 00:34:27,360 actually want to listen to the evidence 752 00:34:31,150 --> 00:34:29,820 and many people were so closed-minded 753 00:34:34,870 --> 00:34:31,160 they don't want to hear the evidence 754 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:34,880 another the claim is that there's a 755 00:34:39,140 --> 00:34:37,290 overwhelming consensus within the sides 756 00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:39,150 of the community that genetically 757 00:34:44,150 --> 00:34:41,310 engineered foods or at least as safe as 758 00:34:47,690 --> 00:34:44,160 conventionally produced foods and that 759 00:34:50,990 --> 00:34:47,700 this consensus is as strong as the size 760 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:51,000 of the consensus that the climate is 761 00:34:54,860 --> 00:34:52,890 warming and that human activity is 762 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:54,870 playing a significant role in that 763 00:35:00,140 --> 00:34:56,490 that's just not true 764 00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:00,150 because whereas not a single to my 765 00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:02,910 knowledge not a single respected 766 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:05,520 scientific organization independent 767 00:35:11,630 --> 00:35:09,090 scientific organization has dissented 768 00:35:13,970 --> 00:35:11,640 from the from the consensus opinion 769 00:35:16,940 --> 00:35:13,980 about global warming within the size of 770 00:35:20,290 --> 00:35:16,950 the community several eminent scientific 771 00:35:22,580 --> 00:35:20,300 organizations have warned about the 772 00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:22,590 risks of genetically engineered foods 773 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:23,510 and 774 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:25,610 that the regulation is not strict enough 775 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:28,130 that the level of testing is not at all 776 00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:30,410 rigorous enough and one of those 777 00:35:37,330 --> 00:35:33,590 organizations is the Royal Society of 778 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:37,340 Canada that nation's premier scientific 779 00:35:44,290 --> 00:35:39,770 organization it's their National Academy 780 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:44,300 of Science in 2001 a panel of experts of 781 00:35:50,490 --> 00:35:47,570 the Royal Society of Canada released a 782 00:35:53,260 --> 00:35:50,500 very long comprehensive report on 783 00:35:56,410 --> 00:35:53,270 genetically engineered foods titled 784 00:35:58,900 --> 00:35:56,420 elements of precaution and they made the 785 00:36:01,690 --> 00:35:58,910 case for a much stricter precautionary 786 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:01,700 approach then the Canadian regulators 787 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:04,730 were then implying and/or that the EU 788 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:07,370 was that employing and far stricter than 789 00:36:13,540 --> 00:36:09,770 the US which of course didn't require 790 00:36:16,990 --> 00:36:13,550 any regulation at all and two of the 791 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:17,000 main conclusions of that expert report 792 00:36:22,900 --> 00:36:20,930 were that the default prediction and 793 00:36:25,150 --> 00:36:22,910 that was their term the default 794 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:25,160 prediction for every genetically 795 00:36:29,650 --> 00:36:27,290 engineered food should be that the 796 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:29,660 engineering process the genetic 797 00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:33,290 reconfiguration process has created some 798 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:35,630 unintended side effect or side effects 799 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:37,970 that could have rendered that product 800 00:36:43,210 --> 00:36:40,490 harmful for the human or the animal 801 00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:43,220 consumer and one of the second main 802 00:36:48,810 --> 00:36:46,400 conclusions was that it is 803 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:48,820 scientifically unjustifiable 804 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:52,130 scientifically unjustified to presume 805 00:36:57,460 --> 00:36:54,650 that any genetically engineered food is 806 00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:57,470 safe based on the kinds of testing that 807 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:00,320 was then currently in place and the 808 00:37:06,580 --> 00:37:02,090 kinds if somebody thinks well that was 809 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:06,590 2001 so things are better now yes in the 810 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:10,250 European Union there is some stricter 811 00:37:15,730 --> 00:37:12,890 level of testing required now but not in 812 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:15,740 Canada and not in the US but even in the 813 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:19,130 EU what is being required wasn't 814 00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:22,610 instituted until 2013 quite a long time 815 00:37:27,070 --> 00:37:24,710 after genetically engineered foods began 816 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:27,080 to permeate the North American market 817 00:37:32,050 --> 00:37:30,050 and secondly the kind of testing that is 818 00:37:34,450 --> 00:37:32,060 now required in the European Union is 819 00:37:36,620 --> 00:37:34,460 still much lesser than the kind of 820 00:37:40,850 --> 00:37:36,630 testing than the Canadian X 821 00:37:43,370 --> 00:37:40,860 it's stated is necessary so that report 822 00:37:45,890 --> 00:37:43,380 which has never been revised nor 823 00:37:50,270 --> 00:37:45,900 retracted is still as relevant today as 824 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:50,280 it was back in 2001 and so that's a very 825 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:51,330 important point 826 00:37:57,350 --> 00:37:53,610 also the Public Health Association of 827 00:37:59,600 --> 00:37:57,360 Australia beginning in 2000 was coming 828 00:38:02,180 --> 00:37:59,610 out with many cautionary statements 829 00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:02,190 about the risks of GM foods strongly 830 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:04,730 criticizing the regulatory framework and 831 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:08,250 most recently in 2016 their policy 832 00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:10,290 statement on genetically engineered 833 00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:13,920 foods called for an immediate freeze on 834 00:38:19,010 --> 00:38:17,280 the importation or planting or marketing 835 00:38:22,130 --> 00:38:19,020 of genetically engineered foods until 836 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:22,140 each one of them has been demonstrated 837 00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:25,170 to be safe through long-term testing 838 00:38:31,130 --> 00:38:28,020 performed independently of the industry 839 00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:31,140 well that standard has has not been met 840 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:34,800 at all and British Medical Association 841 00:38:41,450 --> 00:38:38,370 is also I issued cautionary statements 842 00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:41,460 so and other organizations as well the 843 00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:44,250 Academy of environmental medicine so 844 00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:47,280 again a very these claims that the 845 00:38:52,340 --> 00:38:50,160 consensus about scientific consensus 846 00:38:54,140 --> 00:38:52,350 about genetically engineered foods is on 847 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:54,150 a par with the scientific consensus 848 00:38:59,600 --> 00:38:57,690 regarding climate change false and there 849 00:39:01,010 --> 00:38:59,610 never has been a scientific consensus 850 00:39:03,140 --> 00:39:01,020 about safety of the genetically 851 00:39:05,540 --> 00:39:03,150 engineered foods so that's very 852 00:39:09,140 --> 00:39:05,550 important to know and that's one of the 853 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:09,150 major falsehoods that I come up against 854 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:11,490 all the time and most of your listeners 855 00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:13,250 have probably heard that as well and 856 00:39:17,630 --> 00:39:15,510 most commentators in the mainstream 857 00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:17,640 media believe that they've been led to 858 00:39:22,460 --> 00:39:20,640 believe that's the case another major 859 00:39:23,930 --> 00:39:22,470 falsehood or do you want to interject 860 00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:23,940 something here I've been speaking for 861 00:39:28,940 --> 00:39:26,880 quite a while well I was gonna say that 862 00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:28,950 those are two great ones that I think 863 00:39:33,710 --> 00:39:31,200 everyone's heard and it is so scary that 864 00:39:36,380 --> 00:39:33,720 these things are rubber stamped based on 865 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:36,390 what you call phantom data and then 866 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:37,890 dumped on the market without any 867 00:39:42,590 --> 00:39:40,890 tracking or accountability and we really 868 00:39:45,490 --> 00:39:42,600 can't get the toothpaste back in the 869 00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:45,500 tube when I was going to bring up was 870 00:39:50,010 --> 00:39:48,240 something I often hear trying to paint 871 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:50,020 Monsanto as the hero of this 872 00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:52,090 story is that we need this technology 873 00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:54,910 for drought-tolerant or pest resistant 874 00:40:00,060 --> 00:39:57,280 crops to feed the world's growing 875 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:00,070 population that it's a necessary evil 876 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:03,690 and this is a bit of a myth that seems 877 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:07,090 yeah it's more than a myth again that 878 00:40:14,370 --> 00:40:10,690 flies in the face of so many facts for 879 00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:14,380 instance one of the major studies that 880 00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:18,730 actually studied what is needed to meet 881 00:40:27,180 --> 00:40:21,760 the world's food needs during the next 882 00:40:30,180 --> 00:40:27,190 50 years was co-sponsored by the World 883 00:40:32,070 --> 00:40:30,190 Bank and for United Nations agencies so 884 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:32,080 those are hardly radical anti 885 00:40:38,070 --> 00:40:35,530 technological agencies it was a four 886 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:38,080 year study it was conducted by more than 887 00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:40,930 400 experts from 80 countries and has 888 00:40:45,690 --> 00:40:43,510 been endorsed by 58 governments it is 889 00:40:47,850 --> 00:40:45,700 called the International assessment of 890 00:40:51,420 --> 00:40:47,860 agricultural knowledge science and 891 00:40:53,850 --> 00:40:51,430 technology for development and its 892 00:40:56,070 --> 00:40:53,860 assessment of genetic engineering flew 893 00:40:59,070 --> 00:40:56,080 in the face of the promotional claims 894 00:41:01,140 --> 00:40:59,080 that you just stated Greg by concluding 895 00:41:03,210 --> 00:41:01,150 that genetic engineering is not 896 00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:03,220 essential for solving the problem of 897 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:06,700 hunger now they did endorse the experts 898 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:09,250 who wrote that report did endorse a 899 00:41:13,020 --> 00:41:11,410 different approach they called for the 900 00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:13,030 development of what they would they 901 00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:15,220 termed agro ecological methods of 902 00:41:20,730 --> 00:41:17,860 production those methods require fewer 903 00:41:23,490 --> 00:41:20,740 inputs they can serve resources they 904 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:23,500 preserve the soil those methods are 905 00:41:30,510 --> 00:41:26,530 generally either organic or near organic 906 00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:30,520 they do not rely on GMOs they don't rely 907 00:41:37,050 --> 00:41:33,520 on the pesticides that are required by 908 00:41:40,020 --> 00:41:37,060 so many of the GMO crops they increase 909 00:41:43,020 --> 00:41:40,030 yields better than GMOs have been shown 910 00:41:44,610 --> 00:41:43,030 to do and they also build pest 911 00:41:47,820 --> 00:41:44,620 protection but through natural means 912 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:47,830 that do not create harm to the farmers 913 00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:49,810 or the ultimate consumer or the 914 00:41:55,250 --> 00:41:52,000 environment they induce harder your 915 00:41:58,350 --> 00:41:55,260 crops than greater soil fertility and 916 00:42:00,480 --> 00:41:58,360 when the head of that report was asked 917 00:42:01,799 --> 00:42:00,490 at the press conference of witches it 918 00:42:04,589 --> 00:42:01,809 was announced so he 919 00:42:07,410 --> 00:42:04,599 see any role for genetic engineering in 920 00:42:10,469 --> 00:42:07,420 meeting the world's future food needs 921 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:10,479 he stated well the the Frank answer is 922 00:42:18,359 --> 00:42:14,650 no so and the deputy director of that 923 00:42:21,209 --> 00:42:18,369 gave the same negative answer so again 924 00:42:24,299 --> 00:42:21,219 the proponents never mentioned that 925 00:42:27,539 --> 00:42:24,309 study in fact the United States at 926 00:42:29,249 --> 00:42:27,549 Monsanto industry was involved in that - 927 00:42:31,739 --> 00:42:29,259 there were industry members when 928 00:42:34,739 --> 00:42:31,749 Monsanto saw that it was going against 929 00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:34,749 them they pulled out so they could they 930 00:42:40,229 --> 00:42:37,420 could attack it but as I mentioned there 931 00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:40,239 were there were hundreds of more than 932 00:42:46,349 --> 00:42:43,119 400 experts from 80 countries were 933 00:42:49,259 --> 00:42:46,359 involved in producing that report it was 934 00:42:52,289 --> 00:42:49,269 comprehensive it was thorough but 935 00:42:55,709 --> 00:42:52,299 because it came down with actually a 936 00:42:57,150 --> 00:42:55,719 fact-based judgment on GMOs you don't 937 00:42:59,249 --> 00:42:57,160 hear about it in the mainstream media 938 00:43:01,410 --> 00:42:59,259 it's been pretty much ignored in this 939 00:43:04,949 --> 00:43:01,420 country our government has ignored it 940 00:43:07,019 --> 00:43:04,959 and the proponents of genetic 941 00:43:09,569 --> 00:43:07,029 engineering ignore it which is too bad 942 00:43:13,890 --> 00:43:09,579 and it's in line with many other studies 943 00:43:16,650 --> 00:43:13,900 that show that small-scale farming based 944 00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:16,660 on agro ecological techniques can out 945 00:43:24,109 --> 00:43:18,900 produce large-scale industrial 946 00:43:28,529 --> 00:43:24,119 agriculture even when it uses GMOs hmm 947 00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:28,539 very telling very telling and man this 948 00:43:32,669 --> 00:43:30,400 is just cruising right along I can't 949 00:43:34,469 --> 00:43:32,679 believe it but I wanted to address this 950 00:43:37,499 --> 00:43:34,479 to you it comes up in the book and I'll 951 00:43:39,359 --> 00:43:37,509 just use a quote from you before we do 952 00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:39,369 that I did let me get to one of the 953 00:43:44,669 --> 00:43:42,400 other main falsehoods leaves it is 954 00:43:45,989 --> 00:43:44,679 important undermine and then please get 955 00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:45,999 back to the question you're about to ask 956 00:43:49,769 --> 00:43:47,920 sorry there are J know it's important 957 00:43:51,749 --> 00:43:49,779 circle we keep going I'll forget we 958 00:43:54,749 --> 00:43:51,759 won't get back to this and that's the 959 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:54,759 claim again which one here's repeated 960 00:43:59,759 --> 00:43:56,650 time and again as if it's a scientific 961 00:44:02,339 --> 00:43:59,769 truth in the mainstream media or in 962 00:44:05,219 --> 00:44:02,349 academic conferences or I get it when I 963 00:44:07,169 --> 00:44:05,229 speak at universities and scientists in 964 00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:07,179 the audience want to object they say and 965 00:44:14,789 --> 00:44:11,910 the claim is that there has been no 966 00:44:15,210 --> 00:44:14,799 substantiating evidence of any harm that 967 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:15,220 has been 968 00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:17,530 caused by any genetically engineered 969 00:44:26,099 --> 00:44:21,670 food and of course we I talked about the 970 00:44:29,220 --> 00:44:26,109 the l-tryptophan incident but if we go 971 00:44:31,290 --> 00:44:29,230 to the genetically engineered crops that 972 00:44:33,870 --> 00:44:31,300 have been introduced there's a claim no 973 00:44:37,230 --> 00:44:33,880 crop no genetically engineered food crop 974 00:44:39,839 --> 00:44:37,240 has ever been shown to have an adverse 975 00:44:44,370 --> 00:44:39,849 effect that's just not true there are 976 00:44:46,370 --> 00:44:44,380 many many sound studies published in the 977 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:46,380 peer-reviewed scientific literature 978 00:44:52,380 --> 00:44:49,330 documenting harm serious harm in several 979 00:44:54,210 --> 00:44:52,390 cases in laboratory animals that were in 980 00:44:55,950 --> 00:44:54,220 the experimental group that was 981 00:44:57,599 --> 00:44:55,960 unfortunate enough to be fed the 982 00:44:59,760 --> 00:44:57,609 genetically engineered food instead of 983 00:45:02,370 --> 00:44:59,770 the conventional food and that's why 984 00:45:04,589 --> 00:45:02,380 these experiments are done because if 985 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:04,599 there are problems for the animals then 986 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:06,130 the food's not supposed to get on the 987 00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:10,210 market until changes are made or you 988 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:12,510 know we can show that those problems 989 00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:16,690 were in fact not related to the food but 990 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:19,119 what time it again happens is the 991 00:45:23,550 --> 00:45:20,890 proponents of genetically engineered 992 00:45:25,290 --> 00:45:23,560 food and this includes eminent 993 00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:25,300 scientists and scientific Accor ghen is 994 00:45:31,260 --> 00:45:28,480 a shion's ignore that data and they make 995 00:45:34,020 --> 00:45:31,270 this claim and then they all start 996 00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:34,030 reciting one another's claims and they 997 00:45:37,950 --> 00:45:36,040 act as if it's true now there's an old 998 00:45:40,349 --> 00:45:37,960 saying if you repeat a lie long enough 999 00:45:42,270 --> 00:45:40,359 people start believing it's true if you 1000 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:42,280 keep repeating it that's what they're 1001 00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:45,010 doing and yet they're ignoring the data 1002 00:45:49,770 --> 00:45:48,160 but it is just a falsehood to state that 1003 00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:49,780 there's been no evidence that any 1004 00:45:54,510 --> 00:45:51,609 genetically engineered food has caused 1005 00:45:58,500 --> 00:45:54,520 harm there's abundant evidence of that 1006 00:46:01,620 --> 00:45:58,510 and many of the studies that claim that 1007 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:01,630 a GMO food didn't cause harm have been 1008 00:46:06,990 --> 00:46:03,970 shoddy studies that were not conducted 1009 00:46:09,450 --> 00:46:07,000 with the same level of rigor as many of 1010 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:09,460 the studies that did show harm so it's 1011 00:46:15,750 --> 00:46:12,730 very important that we understand what 1012 00:46:18,839 --> 00:46:15,760 the data does show and that these claims 1013 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:18,849 of no harm has been documented are 1014 00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:21,130 exposed for the falsehoods that they are 1015 00:46:24,750 --> 00:46:23,920 and just I want to make another point 1016 00:46:26,790 --> 00:46:24,760 before then 1017 00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,800 you can ask that question you were about 1018 00:46:31,530 --> 00:46:28,720 to do when I interrupted you and that is 1019 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:31,540 that one of the key points of my book is 1020 00:46:38,940 --> 00:46:37,210 that the main misrepresentations that 1021 00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:38,950 have enabled the genetically engineered 1022 00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:42,730 food venture to not only advance but 1023 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:45,520 actually to survive have not come from 1024 00:46:52,590 --> 00:46:48,970 Monsanto and DuPont and Syngenta they 1025 00:46:55,740 --> 00:46:52,600 have come from regulatory agencies like 1026 00:46:59,970 --> 00:46:55,750 the FDA or Canada's food regulatory 1027 00:47:02,880 --> 00:46:59,980 agency or from and from the scientific 1028 00:47:04,890 --> 00:47:02,890 establishment from respected elements of 1029 00:47:08,210 --> 00:47:04,900 the scientific establishment be they 1030 00:47:10,140 --> 00:47:08,220 university side by ologists or 1031 00:47:11,730 --> 00:47:10,150 organizations like the American 1032 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:11,740 Association for the Advancement of 1033 00:47:16,620 --> 00:47:14,170 science or the National Academy of 1034 00:47:18,210 --> 00:47:16,630 Science and I know that's hard for a lot 1035 00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:18,220 of people to get their heads around how 1036 00:47:23,790 --> 00:47:21,420 could the National Academy of Science be 1037 00:47:25,620 --> 00:47:23,800 misrepresenting facts how could they be 1038 00:47:28,020 --> 00:47:25,630 trying to suppress evidence and confuse 1039 00:47:31,260 --> 00:47:28,030 the public unfortunately that's happened 1040 00:47:33,090 --> 00:47:31,270 that has been happening and consistently 1041 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:33,100 through the National Academy of Science 1042 00:47:37,860 --> 00:47:35,890 in my book documents that it's a sorry 1043 00:47:40,590 --> 00:47:37,870 state of affairs I wish it were 1044 00:47:43,620 --> 00:47:40,600 otherwise but it's not and my book 1045 00:47:47,580 --> 00:47:43,630 documents documents that sorry state of 1046 00:47:49,380 --> 00:47:47,590 reality yes yes very important point I'm 1047 00:47:50,850 --> 00:47:49,390 really glad you mentioned that and that 1048 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:50,860 we squeeze it into the first hour 1049 00:47:55,290 --> 00:47:52,930 because that's a real aspect that I 1050 00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:55,300 found super interesting because I have a 1051 00:47:59,580 --> 00:47:57,250 tendency to always go to the 1052 00:48:01,830 --> 00:47:59,590 corporation's DuPont Monsanto Bayer 1053 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:01,840 because they're the producers and 1054 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:03,610 they're also the profit ears and 1055 00:48:07,950 --> 00:48:06,010 honestly it's hard to parse completely 1056 00:48:10,050 --> 00:48:07,960 when they have so many executives going 1057 00:48:12,030 --> 00:48:10,060 back and forth between corporations and 1058 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:12,040 government but that's an interesting 1059 00:48:16,380 --> 00:48:14,490 thing you bring up that the most serious 1060 00:48:18,690 --> 00:48:16,390 misrepresentations actually come from 1061 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:18,700 the scientific institutions it's odd 1062 00:48:23,790 --> 00:48:21,250 because we know what Monsanto's 1063 00:48:26,670 --> 00:48:23,800 incentive would be to lie it'd be money 1064 00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:26,680 but what are the motivations from the 1065 00:48:32,570 --> 00:48:30,400 scientific institutions okay and if 1066 00:48:35,490 --> 00:48:32,580 again it's important to point out 1067 00:48:37,260 --> 00:48:35,500 Monsanto and many manufacturers have 1068 00:48:40,020 --> 00:48:37,270 been behaving very badly 1069 00:48:42,210 --> 00:48:40,030 it's just if the sides of the community 1070 00:48:43,950 --> 00:48:42,220 did not back them up if the sides of 1071 00:48:46,290 --> 00:48:43,960 community actually exposed the 1072 00:48:48,540 --> 00:48:46,300 falsehoods for what they are as the 1073 00:48:50,910 --> 00:48:48,550 Excite if a' community has been doing 1074 00:48:53,330 --> 00:48:50,920 admirably in the case of climate change 1075 00:48:55,890 --> 00:48:53,340 they've been exposing the 1076 00:48:58,890 --> 00:48:55,900 misrepresentations of the fossil fuel 1077 00:49:02,250 --> 00:48:58,900 industry and the other industries that 1078 00:49:04,260 --> 00:49:02,260 are you know threatened by by exposing 1079 00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:04,270 the facts of climate change but it's 1080 00:49:09,150 --> 00:49:06,310 very different unfortunately in the case 1081 00:49:11,730 --> 00:49:09,160 of GMOs and that's why it's so dangerous 1082 00:49:14,430 --> 00:49:11,740 the GMO juggernaut because you've got 1083 00:49:16,830 --> 00:49:14,440 the scientific establishment aligned 1084 00:49:19,590 --> 00:49:16,840 with the major corporations so it's 1085 00:49:22,340 --> 00:49:19,600 scaring what is their motivation well 1086 00:49:26,100 --> 00:49:22,350 they're mixed motivations as my book 1087 00:49:27,870 --> 00:49:26,110 documents many many scientists who are 1088 00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:27,880 members of the National Academy of 1089 00:49:34,170 --> 00:49:30,910 Sciences or on important have important 1090 00:49:36,540 --> 00:49:34,180 positions do have financial conflicts of 1091 00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:36,550 interests because with the advent of 1092 00:49:42,599 --> 00:49:39,910 genetic engineering by biologists were 1093 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:42,609 able to patent you know gene this gene 1094 00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:44,770 or that gene this kind of changed this 1095 00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:49,359 this crop and so then they get a 1096 00:49:55,620 --> 00:49:52,480 financial stake in a biotech company or 1097 00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:55,630 that way or if not through ownership 1098 00:50:02,490 --> 00:49:58,480 then they can get lucrative consulting 1099 00:50:05,340 --> 00:50:02,500 contracts and this has happened too but 1100 00:50:07,050 --> 00:50:05,350 there are cases of many cases in which 1101 00:50:10,380 --> 00:50:07,060 scientists do not appear to have any 1102 00:50:12,599 --> 00:50:10,390 financial conflict of interest but they 1103 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:12,609 still are pushing GMOs and I've lost 1104 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:14,650 sight of of ethics that have actually 1105 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:17,050 been acting as spin doctors and 1106 00:50:23,580 --> 00:50:21,010 sometimes worse and it's difficult to 1107 00:50:25,830 --> 00:50:23,590 understand the psychology my book goes 1108 00:50:28,290 --> 00:50:25,840 into that little but the main thing is 1109 00:50:30,630 --> 00:50:28,300 we don't need to establish motive it's 1110 00:50:32,220 --> 00:50:30,640 not like trying to establish that 1111 00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:32,230 somebody's guilty of first-degree murder 1112 00:50:36,660 --> 00:50:34,510 where you have to show they their state 1113 00:50:38,490 --> 00:50:36,670 of mind they you know premeditated I 1114 00:50:40,380 --> 00:50:38,500 don't have to show the state of mind of 1115 00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:40,390 any scientists all I have to show is 1116 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:43,359 their statements that are contradicted 1117 00:50:49,530 --> 00:50:45,490 by hard evidence ok 1118 00:50:50,730 --> 00:50:49,540 so I've shown that in the book so their 1119 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:50,740 motivation is it 1120 00:50:54,420 --> 00:50:53,050 elephant for that's point but obviously 1121 00:50:57,690 --> 00:50:54,430 we want to know how could it have 1122 00:51:00,420 --> 00:50:57,700 happened and a lot of it is arrogance I 1123 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:00,430 believe a lot of it is scientists 1124 00:51:06,380 --> 00:51:03,490 thinking we know better we can do this 1125 00:51:09,570 --> 00:51:06,390 and feeling somehow invested 1126 00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:09,580 psychologically in this venture because 1127 00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:12,250 remember in climate change they're not 1128 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:15,760 invested in in it except maybe a few 1129 00:51:21,540 --> 00:51:17,970 scientists who might be have by now 1130 00:51:23,460 --> 00:51:21,550 invested in you know solar energy or 1131 00:51:25,290 --> 00:51:23,470 something but what I'm saying is the 1132 00:51:28,380 --> 00:51:25,300 climate scientists the people doing 1133 00:51:32,490 --> 00:51:28,390 climate science you know they're just 1134 00:51:35,250 --> 00:51:32,500 trying to act as scientists and they're 1135 00:51:38,130 --> 00:51:35,260 not pushing a technology whereas genetic 1136 00:51:41,580 --> 00:51:38,140 engineering became identified as this 1137 00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:41,590 great scientific revolution and I think 1138 00:51:46,620 --> 00:51:44,170 to that extent scientists then were made 1139 00:51:49,170 --> 00:51:46,630 to feel that they have to stand up and 1140 00:51:50,850 --> 00:51:49,180 defend it and there's been a lot of 1141 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:50,860 propaganda going around that have 1142 00:51:55,410 --> 00:51:53,530 convinced scientists of that and it's 1143 00:51:58,170 --> 00:51:55,420 difficult to fight back against it 1144 00:52:00,660 --> 00:51:58,180 because they think that there's some 1145 00:52:04,290 --> 00:52:00,670 equation between defending GMOs and 1146 00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:04,300 defending science and that does not 1147 00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:07,090 happen in fact if science were truly 1148 00:52:12,660 --> 00:52:09,730 being defended in this issue if the 1149 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:12,670 facts had actually been told and have 1150 00:52:17,790 --> 00:52:15,010 been fully and truthfully communicated 1151 00:52:19,890 --> 00:52:17,800 and if good scientific research had been 1152 00:52:22,260 --> 00:52:19,900 performed and if the good research that 1153 00:52:25,230 --> 00:52:22,270 has been performed hadn't been trashed 1154 00:52:26,730 --> 00:52:25,240 out or suppressed Jeannette Leonard 1155 00:52:28,770 --> 00:52:26,740 foods couldn't have been on the market 1156 00:52:30,990 --> 00:52:28,780 today we wouldn't really be I wouldn't 1157 00:52:34,530 --> 00:52:31,000 have had to write the book and that is a 1158 00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:34,540 problem and that is why one of the 1159 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:36,160 eminent biologists the wrote a very 1160 00:52:41,070 --> 00:52:38,290 strong recommendation for my book 1161 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:41,080 Philip regal stated that what my book 1162 00:52:46,830 --> 00:52:44,050 shows is that what's at stake is not 1163 00:52:49,230 --> 00:52:46,840 only the safety of our food but the 1164 00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:49,240 future of science itself science has 1165 00:52:55,410 --> 00:52:51,609 become corrupted to a very large extent 1166 00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:55,420 and it has to stop and so I always am 1167 00:52:59,640 --> 00:52:57,970 amused when if I speak at a at a 1168 00:53:01,230 --> 00:52:59,650 university and somebody from the 1169 00:53:03,210 --> 00:53:01,240 audience tries to accused me of being 1170 00:53:04,109 --> 00:53:03,220 anti science and that said I'm trying to 1171 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:04,119 defend 1172 00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:05,650 are you saying that by trying to bring 1173 00:53:10,140 --> 00:53:08,079 out the facts I'm somehow assaulting 1174 00:53:12,210 --> 00:53:10,150 science that's oh that's a sorry state 1175 00:53:14,849 --> 00:53:12,220 of affairs if somebody who's trying to 1176 00:53:16,980 --> 00:53:14,859 bring out the facts is actually accused 1177 00:53:20,730 --> 00:53:16,990 of being anti science because science 1178 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:20,740 has to be you can't represent science if 1179 00:53:26,430 --> 00:53:23,410 you're misrepresenting the facts yes 1180 00:53:29,779 --> 00:53:26,440 cheers to that that's a definitely a 1181 00:53:32,029 --> 00:53:29,789 theme around here and blind trust in 1182 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:32,039 scientific authorities is an issue 1183 00:53:39,420 --> 00:53:34,930 surfacing in many sectors as that quote 1184 00:53:40,740 --> 00:53:39,430 you just read is indicating and I'm glad 1185 00:53:42,539 --> 00:53:40,750 we took the time to get a couple more 1186 00:53:45,630 --> 00:53:42,549 arguments out there because helping 1187 00:53:48,059 --> 00:53:45,640 people have the conversation and have 1188 00:53:51,509 --> 00:53:48,069 convincing arguments and truths in their 1189 00:53:53,940 --> 00:53:51,519 arsenal is very important because it's 1190 00:53:57,359 --> 00:53:53,950 not enough to just be right we have to 1191 00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:57,369 be persuasive as well so I think all 1192 00:54:02,190 --> 00:54:00,160 that is great context and before I let 1193 00:54:05,460 --> 00:54:02,200 you go what is next for you are you 1194 00:54:08,039 --> 00:54:05,470 working on other litigation other books 1195 00:54:09,410 --> 00:54:08,049 any other activist projects on this 1196 00:54:12,900 --> 00:54:09,420 particular subject 1197 00:54:14,849 --> 00:54:12,910 well not other a litigation at this 1198 00:54:15,630 --> 00:54:14,859 point although many people have urged me 1199 00:54:19,859 --> 00:54:15,640 to do that 1200 00:54:22,589 --> 00:54:19,869 my main focus has been on trying to get 1201 00:54:25,799 --> 00:54:22,599 key people in the academic community or 1202 00:54:28,589 --> 00:54:25,809 the regulatory committee community or 1203 00:54:32,009 --> 00:54:28,599 you know the the intelligentsia to 1204 00:54:34,890 --> 00:54:32,019 understand the facts and meeting with 1205 00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:34,900 people and giving talks at universities 1206 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:38,319 and at conferences and there are some 1207 00:54:43,529 --> 00:54:41,170 very hopeful developments on the horizon 1208 00:54:45,569 --> 00:54:43,539 I can't discuss them right now but some 1209 00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:45,579 things that could make major turnarounds 1210 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:48,970 and so I'm hopeful I'm also hopeful that 1211 00:54:53,460 --> 00:54:51,130 many of the people listen now will want 1212 00:54:56,099 --> 00:54:53,470 to arm themselves with the evidence so 1213 00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:56,109 that they can be stronger when they get 1214 00:55:01,009 --> 00:54:58,240 into debates and arguments with Uncle 1215 00:55:03,299 --> 00:55:01,019 Fred or some cousin who's about you know 1216 00:55:06,329 --> 00:55:03,309 biologists at some University and they 1217 00:55:09,569 --> 00:55:06,339 because my book is really a great 1218 00:55:13,650 --> 00:55:09,579 resource filled with facts and not my 1219 00:55:16,350 --> 00:55:13,660 opinion but solid facts and opinions of 1220 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:16,360 eminent scientific organizations 1221 00:55:21,630 --> 00:55:19,290 the opinions of the FDA's scientists and 1222 00:55:23,700 --> 00:55:21,640 so I hope that more people will read it 1223 00:55:26,610 --> 00:55:23,710 too because everybody has influence and 1224 00:55:28,590 --> 00:55:26,620 the more people that know the facts then 1225 00:55:30,300 --> 00:55:28,600 they have their influence spreads and 1226 00:55:34,350 --> 00:55:30,310 eventually we're gonna reach a tipping 1227 00:55:37,650 --> 00:55:34,360 point where the truth will triumph here 1228 00:55:39,630 --> 00:55:37,660 here and it is the family holiday season 1229 00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:39,640 after all so important to keep these 1230 00:55:44,580 --> 00:55:42,160 things in mind well thanks a lot 1231 00:55:47,250 --> 00:55:44,590 this has been really wonderful please 1232 00:55:49,050 --> 00:55:47,260 leave the people with links or social 1233 00:55:51,140 --> 00:55:49,060 media info or anything else they should 1234 00:55:53,550 --> 00:55:51,150 know about following up on your work 1235 00:55:56,790 --> 00:55:53,560 okay well again the name of the book is 1236 00:55:58,740 --> 00:55:56,800 altered genes twisted truth Jane Goodall 1237 00:56:00,180 --> 00:55:58,750 wrote the foreword in which he states is 1238 00:56:02,670 --> 00:56:00,190 one of the most important books in the 1239 00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:02,680 last 50 years and there are many 1240 00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:04,240 endorsements of other scientists 1241 00:56:09,210 --> 00:56:05,920 appraising the book's solidity and 1242 00:56:12,060 --> 00:56:09,220 importance the website of the Alliance 1243 00:56:18,410 --> 00:56:12,070 for BA integrity I has a lot of good 1244 00:56:23,150 --> 00:56:18,420 information WWB Oh integrity o RG bi o 1245 00:56:27,330 --> 00:56:23,160 integrity dot o-r-g and you can read 1246 00:56:30,570 --> 00:56:27,340 copies of 24 the FDA's key memos up on 1247 00:56:34,220 --> 00:56:30,580 that website also the book has a website 1248 00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:34,230 altered genes twisted truth calm and 1249 00:56:40,530 --> 00:56:36,640 there's some more information there too 1250 00:56:43,020 --> 00:56:40,540 and the book should be available at 1251 00:56:48,030 --> 00:56:43,030 bookstores it's also of course available 1252 00:56:50,550 --> 00:56:48,040 online and again I leave you with what I 1253 00:56:54,510 --> 00:56:50,560 think is a hopeful message and that is 1254 00:56:57,750 --> 00:56:54,520 that I want science to prevail on this I 1255 00:56:59,460 --> 00:56:57,760 want the facts to prevail and if that if 1256 00:57:02,400 --> 00:56:59,470 those things happen if the science 1257 00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:02,410 prevails that the facts prevail then the 1258 00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:05,080 problems of genetically engineering the 1259 00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:07,510 problems of the GMO venture will vanish 1260 00:57:13,890 --> 00:57:10,960 very quickly so again there should not 1261 00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:13,900 be a perceived dichotomy between science 1262 00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:17,200 and concerns about GMOs because the more 1263 00:57:22,890 --> 00:57:19,930 people understand science and understand 1264 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:22,900 the facts then the greater reason there 1265 00:57:28,740 --> 00:57:24,970 is to have concerns about the risks of 1266 00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:28,750 GMOs agreed well said 1267 00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:32,240 amazing work I love the book is great 1268 00:57:36,339 --> 00:57:34,400 talking to you you are the man keep 1269 00:57:39,290 --> 00:57:36,349 fighting the good fight thank you so 1270 00:57:44,610 --> 00:57:42,450 well it's the end of the world as we 1271 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:44,620 know it and I feel fine 1272 00:57:51,630 --> 00:57:48,850 Steven drew ker hmm powerhouse guest on 1273 00:57:54,500 --> 00:57:51,640 the GMO issue and something we haven't 1274 00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:54,510 talked directly about in some time 1275 00:57:59,610 --> 00:57:57,130 marion Nestle was really great but that 1276 00:58:01,530 --> 00:57:59,620 was more about deceptive corporate food 1277 00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:01,540 marketing and twisted nutritional 1278 00:58:07,860 --> 00:58:04,240 science the last time Joseph Ferrell was 1279 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:07,870 here we did touch on GMO politics a bit 1280 00:58:12,510 --> 00:58:10,330 in the Plus show but that was more about 1281 00:58:15,330 --> 00:58:12,520 how the confessions of an economic 1282 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:15,340 hitman template is now being rolled out 1283 00:58:19,950 --> 00:58:17,170 in places that are trying to push back 1284 00:58:22,830 --> 00:58:19,960 against the GMO takeover and are trying 1285 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:22,840 to preserve their food sovereignty you 1286 00:58:27,870 --> 00:58:24,850 know how it goes they coerced smaller 1287 00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:27,880 nations into predatory loans like their 1288 00:58:32,490 --> 00:58:30,130 naive college freshmen trying to get a 1289 00:58:35,580 --> 00:58:32,500 free frisbee for the tailgate party and 1290 00:58:37,470 --> 00:58:35,590 then when these countries can't pay the 1291 00:58:40,380 --> 00:58:37,480 loans they say hey guys don't worry 1292 00:58:44,010 --> 00:58:40,390 about it just let standard oil drop some 1293 00:58:45,450 --> 00:58:44,020 rigs here and we'll call it a deal which 1294 00:58:47,700 --> 00:58:45,460 is what they really want anyway they 1295 00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:47,710 don't actually just want the loan repaid 1296 00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:49,730 that's no fun 1297 00:58:54,670 --> 00:58:52,130 and of course if these nations resist 1298 00:58:59,050 --> 00:58:54,680 then they send in the riot starter's and 1299 00:59:01,870 --> 00:58:59,060 get a coup d'etat a Bruin and now that's 1300 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:01,880 going on in places that want to get GMO 1301 00:59:06,460 --> 00:59:03,890 crops out and they want to start organic 1302 00:59:10,660 --> 00:59:06,470 seed banks and all that this is actually 1303 00:59:12,730 --> 00:59:10,670 a very big deal I'm waiting to find the 1304 00:59:15,550 --> 00:59:12,740 book that really drills it all home 1305 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:15,560 I could see dr. ferral riding it or I 1306 00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:17,570 could see it coming from F William Inge 1307 00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:19,730 doll who wrote seeds of destruction and 1308 00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:21,050 is very knowledgeable about 1309 00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:23,810 international geopolitics but 1310 00:59:31,210 --> 00:59:27,609 nevertheless today was about the very 1311 00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:31,220 foundational question of is this stuff 1312 00:59:35,770 --> 00:59:32,930 really safe because that's where you 1313 00:59:39,849 --> 00:59:35,780 have to start the flow chart you know if 1314 00:59:41,140 --> 00:59:39,859 this GMO agriculture is safe then the 1315 00:59:42,580 --> 00:59:41,150 stuff I just mentioned you know it's 1316 00:59:45,250 --> 00:59:42,590 still about power and money and 1317 00:59:47,890 --> 00:59:45,260 corporate greed but if it's not safe 1318 00:59:51,310 --> 00:59:47,900 it's basically breaking the entire 1319 00:59:53,980 --> 00:59:51,320 ecosystem of the planet and Stephen Drew 1320 00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:53,990 Kerr really brought it big things to him 1321 00:59:59,920 --> 00:59:57,530 I mean he can die happy knowing he made 1322 01:00:03,580 --> 00:59:59,930 a huge impact in getting information 1323 01:00:06,220 --> 01:00:03,590 released from the grips of these shady 1324 01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:06,230 corporations and he's become very 1325 01:00:12,490 --> 01:00:08,720 knowledgeable and he has the scientific 1326 01:00:14,590 --> 01:00:12,500 red flags down really well and a major 1327 01:00:16,780 --> 01:00:14,600 reason I wanted to do this show is 1328 01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:16,790 because I think even I was a little 1329 01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:19,490 swept up in that argument that GMO crops 1330 01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:23,210 in general are safe it's just these ones 1331 01:00:27,700 --> 01:00:24,770 that are made to be resistant to 1332 01:00:29,620 --> 01:00:27,710 glyphosate that are the actual issue and 1333 01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:29,630 I thought of it is one of those 1334 01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:32,090 situations where we have a very acute 1335 01:00:36,910 --> 01:00:34,730 problem and it's hiding under a larger 1336 01:00:38,980 --> 01:00:36,920 terminology that gets everyone mixed up 1337 01:00:42,490 --> 01:00:38,990 because we've seen that tactic before 1338 01:00:45,130 --> 01:00:42,500 too but no it's not just glyphosate 1339 01:00:47,620 --> 01:00:45,140 though that is a huge issue it's 1340 01:00:50,620 --> 01:00:47,630 actually many of these lab altered 1341 01:00:53,830 --> 01:00:50,630 frankenfoods maybe all of them because 1342 01:00:55,420 --> 01:00:53,840 and I think just filters into ether 1343 01:00:58,090 --> 01:00:55,430 physics and the complexity of our 1344 01:01:00,010 --> 01:00:58,100 holistic system but when you inject 1345 01:01:02,500 --> 01:01:00,020 unknown components into a 1346 01:01:03,579 --> 01:01:02,510 compartmentalized piece of the system 1347 01:01:07,509 --> 01:01:03,589 say a 1348 01:01:10,420 --> 01:01:07,519 tomatoe the organism recognizes 1349 01:01:12,549 --> 01:01:10,430 something foreign and then seems to 1350 01:01:14,709 --> 01:01:12,559 create toxins or puts out an immune 1351 01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:14,719 response it seems to emerge out of 1352 01:01:21,039 --> 01:01:17,930 nowhere I say out of nowhere because it 1353 01:01:24,009 --> 01:01:21,049 seems like they've got the components of 1354 01:01:27,459 --> 01:01:24,019 a tomato mapped out pretty well but even 1355 01:01:30,339 --> 01:01:27,469 they are surprised by where some of this 1356 01:01:32,700 --> 01:01:30,349 emerges from I mean I'm clearly not the 1357 01:01:36,430 --> 01:01:32,710 scientist but what I got out of this 1358 01:01:39,789 --> 01:01:36,440 would say the toxic tryptophan incident 1359 01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:39,799 was that even if you just throw off the 1360 01:01:45,670 --> 01:01:43,249 natural ratios the system tries to 1361 01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:45,680 self-correct and produces things that 1362 01:01:52,239 --> 01:01:48,880 are unexpected and harmful to consume 1363 01:01:54,700 --> 01:01:52,249 well why is it doing that the impression 1364 01:01:56,650 --> 01:01:54,710 I get is that it's trying to attack that 1365 01:01:59,229 --> 01:01:56,660 manipulation because it's not supposed 1366 01:02:00,729 --> 01:01:59,239 to be there so I'd hate to throw out the 1367 01:02:04,420 --> 01:02:00,739 baby with the bathwater and all that 1368 01:02:08,650 --> 01:02:04,430 stuff but it seems like I've seen enough 1369 01:02:11,469 --> 01:02:08,660 examples to just say don't do it even 1370 01:02:13,390 --> 01:02:11,479 something as simple as a fruit is not 1371 01:02:16,450 --> 01:02:13,400 like a car where you can just switch out 1372 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:16,460 parts and I say it relates to either 1373 01:02:21,459 --> 01:02:19,130 physics or even spirituality because I 1374 01:02:23,799 --> 01:02:21,469 get this hunch that part of the issue is 1375 01:02:26,259 --> 01:02:23,809 that everything is connected at levels 1376 01:02:28,299 --> 01:02:26,269 of existence that we don't see or even 1377 01:02:31,239 --> 01:02:28,309 really acknowledge in the mainstream and 1378 01:02:32,859 --> 01:02:31,249 it's these trains of thought that 1379 01:02:35,799 --> 01:02:32,869 actually do get me thinking about 1380 01:02:37,660 --> 01:02:35,809 biblical stories like the flood sure 1381 01:02:40,450 --> 01:02:37,670 these stories have been used and tweaked 1382 01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:40,460 for maximum control effort and maybe 1383 01:02:44,829 --> 01:02:42,170 they were made up out of whole cloth too 1384 01:02:47,559 --> 01:02:44,839 but I do think it's provocative to look 1385 01:02:49,779 --> 01:02:47,569 at where we are now all our tweaks and 1386 01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:49,789 changes and abuses of the natural order 1387 01:02:55,450 --> 01:02:53,210 and it really is beyond us and when you 1388 01:02:58,859 --> 01:02:55,460 do these things at this insane corporate 1389 01:03:01,479 --> 01:02:58,869 scale they can screw up everything and 1390 01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:01,489 maybe that supreme consciousness and the 1391 01:03:06,609 --> 01:03:04,210 sky does wipe the slate clean and reset 1392 01:03:08,739 --> 01:03:06,619 indigenous cultures talk about appeasing 1393 01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:08,749 or upsetting the gods all the time and 1394 01:03:13,529 --> 01:03:11,210 it's not like the clouds part and raw 1395 01:03:16,849 --> 01:03:13,539 comes down and starts blasting away the 1396 01:03:19,729 --> 01:03:16,859 gods or whatever is out there 1397 01:03:22,549 --> 01:03:19,739 just act through the system they act 1398 01:03:24,549 --> 01:03:22,559 through nature so if the climate does 1399 01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:24,559 turn towards something inhospitable 1400 01:03:33,380 --> 01:03:28,130 something actually hostile to human life 1401 01:03:36,170 --> 01:03:33,390 did we anger god I don't know but for me 1402 01:03:38,150 --> 01:03:36,180 the best context for biblical stories is 1403 01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:38,160 that they are warnings from the last 1404 01:03:42,829 --> 01:03:41,039 time humanity was strained too far from 1405 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:42,839 the game that this whole thing is set up 1406 01:03:47,779 --> 01:03:45,450 for us to play and then you can factor 1407 01:03:50,630 --> 01:03:47,789 in the jealous angels and spirits 1408 01:03:53,180 --> 01:03:50,640 whispering in the ear of man no it's all 1409 01:03:53,989 --> 01:03:53,190 good this CRISPR technology is going to 1410 01:03:57,410 --> 01:03:53,999 be great 1411 01:03:59,650 --> 01:03:57,420 come on Silicon Valley we can digitize 1412 01:04:03,319 --> 01:03:59,660 the world you know what I'm saying 1413 01:04:05,150 --> 01:04:03,329 they're egging us on and then I start to 1414 01:04:07,309 --> 01:04:05,160 get intrigued by the wisdom in these 1415 01:04:10,279 --> 01:04:07,319 stories that are thousands of years old 1416 01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:10,289 when I look at them as warnings that we 1417 01:04:14,829 --> 01:04:12,630 should enjoy this place but don't go 1418 01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:14,839 tinkering under the hood so much and 1419 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:17,970 these stories as warnings would not be 1420 01:04:24,559 --> 01:04:21,450 nearly as compelling if tinkering under 1421 01:04:26,539 --> 01:04:24,569 the hood didn't have all these negative 1422 01:04:28,940 --> 01:04:26,549 consequences every time we see it 1423 01:04:32,839 --> 01:04:28,950 you know the stories wouldn't work if 1424 01:04:35,210 --> 01:04:32,849 this wasn't exactly what we're doing 1425 01:04:37,790 --> 01:04:35,220 uh yeah so that was not really what I'd 1426 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:37,800 planned for this wrap-up but you know 1427 01:04:42,740 --> 01:04:39,930 the larger point I guess to me is that 1428 01:04:46,310 --> 01:04:42,750 we needed a science-based re-examination 1429 01:04:48,980 --> 01:04:46,320 of the GMO issue outside of the context 1430 01:04:52,190 --> 01:04:48,990 of glyphosate and an element of the show 1431 01:04:54,740 --> 01:04:52,200 being the toxic tryptophan incident on 1432 01:04:56,510 --> 01:04:54,750 the weekend of Thanksgiving I mean 1433 01:04:58,970 --> 01:04:56,520 that's just one of those happy accidents 1434 01:05:01,069 --> 01:04:58,980 that you just can't plan I think it 1435 01:05:03,020 --> 01:05:01,079 means we're doing something right but 1436 01:05:05,930 --> 01:05:03,030 anyway I will be honest you know I get 1437 01:05:07,910 --> 01:05:05,940 lazy and I buy regular ass fruits and 1438 01:05:10,190 --> 01:05:07,920 vegetables all the time the organic 1439 01:05:14,510 --> 01:05:10,200 section is often smaller and it's more 1440 01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:14,520 limited and not only right there is that 1441 01:05:20,329 --> 01:05:17,609 a crazy sign that things are in a scary 1442 01:05:23,300 --> 01:05:20,339 place but I'm sure a lot of us are like 1443 01:05:25,370 --> 01:05:23,310 me and we kind of need this reminder to 1444 01:05:28,609 --> 01:05:25,380 push us towards being more vigilant with 1445 01:05:31,220 --> 01:05:28,619 our choices another good example is 1446 01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:31,230 aluminum we've heard how the aluminum 1447 01:05:37,010 --> 01:05:34,050 content of Alzheimer's sufferers brains 1448 01:05:40,099 --> 01:05:37,020 is off the charts so I started trying to 1449 01:05:43,069 --> 01:05:40,109 avoid it in all areas of life and it 1450 01:05:45,410 --> 01:05:43,079 didn't last long because well when I get 1451 01:05:49,099 --> 01:05:45,420 out there with the boys doing man [\h__\h] 1452 01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:49,109 like golf or softball you can't take 1453 01:05:54,490 --> 01:05:51,839 glass bottles out there so if you want 1454 01:05:57,290 --> 01:05:54,500 to drink you're drinking from cans and 1455 01:05:59,480 --> 01:05:57,300 then I do a little research on kegs 1456 01:06:02,329 --> 01:05:59,490 because I'm thinking oh I'll just drink 1457 01:06:04,220 --> 01:06:02,339 draft beers and I find out they're not 1458 01:06:07,250 --> 01:06:04,230 all stainless steel a lot of them are 1459 01:06:09,380 --> 01:06:07,260 aluminum - and since San Diego is the 1460 01:06:12,079 --> 01:06:09,390 microbrew capital of these here United 1461 01:06:14,930 --> 01:06:12,089 States I'm sure a lot of the smaller 1462 01:06:17,260 --> 01:06:14,940 brands are using aluminum and I'm not 1463 01:06:20,420 --> 01:06:17,270 going to be that guy at the bar asking 1464 01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:20,430 does belching beaver use aluminum kegs 1465 01:06:23,790 --> 01:06:22,050 or stainless steel can you check on that 1466 01:06:25,830 --> 01:06:23,800 for me 1467 01:06:28,650 --> 01:06:25,840 it's sad that you can't ask that 1468 01:06:31,260 --> 01:06:28,660 question but you really can't and if 1469 01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:31,270 that wasn't enough we also do a lot of 1470 01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:33,570 potluck dinners with the friend group 1471 01:06:37,650 --> 01:06:35,290 Thanksgiving being one of them 1472 01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:37,660 how much aluminum foil did you see at 1473 01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:41,290 Thanksgiving probably at least some it's 1474 01:06:44,310 --> 01:06:43,690 just [\h__\h] everywhere guys so what can 1475 01:06:48,060 --> 01:06:44,320 I do 1476 01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:48,070 but acquiesce I just let it go and the 1477 01:06:53,250 --> 01:06:51,520 same thing happens with GMO foods you 1478 01:06:55,230 --> 01:06:53,260 also can't be too vigilant about this 1479 01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:55,240 stuff when you live in a house that has 1480 01:07:00,930 --> 01:06:57,370 Wi-Fi everywhere and you keep a cell 1481 01:07:03,510 --> 01:07:00,940 phone in your pocket it all sucks but 1482 01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:03,520 today was a very useful show about food 1483 01:07:08,390 --> 01:07:05,650 right on the heels of the big food 1484 01:07:11,070 --> 01:07:08,400 holiday and I hope it helped you 1485 01:07:13,460 --> 01:07:11,080 recalibrate your own thoughts on what to 1486 01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:13,470 accept and where to draw the line as 1487 01:07:19,380 --> 01:07:16,210 always I put out the first hour of this 1488 01:07:21,630 --> 01:07:19,390 show for free no breaks no sponsors and 1489 01:07:23,460 --> 01:07:21,640 if you like what I do and how I do it 1490 01:07:26,010 --> 01:07:23,470 you can sign up to be a plus member and 1491 01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:26,020 get a second hour with today's guest and 1492 01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:28,960 every guest today we got a lot deeper 1493 01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:30,970 into some things I was trying to 1494 01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:32,770 actually put into the first hour because 1495 01:07:38,100 --> 01:07:35,170 I thought they were really important but 1496 01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:38,110 Steven kept having added points to make 1497 01:07:43,300 --> 01:07:39,850 which that's great that's a beautiful 1498 01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:43,310 thing it's very important stuff too 1499 01:07:48,070 --> 01:07:45,490 but it just means that even more 1500 01:07:50,250 --> 01:07:48,080 intellectual ammunition can be found in 1501 01:07:53,710 --> 01:07:50,260 the second hour than even I planned for 1502 01:07:55,780 --> 01:07:53,720 and we talked about the lessons learned 1503 01:07:58,420 --> 01:07:55,790 from computer science when it comes to 1504 01:08:00,970 --> 01:07:58,430 altering complex information systems the 1505 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:00,980 concerning truth about the flavor savor 1506 01:08:05,020 --> 01:08:03,650 tomato I think we've all heard about and 1507 01:08:09,820 --> 01:08:05,030 we did talk about the religious 1508 01:08:12,490 --> 01:08:09,830 arguments against GMOs as well as the 1509 01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:12,500 question of has the current 1510 01:08:17,020 --> 01:08:15,050 administration broken from the previous 1511 01:08:19,300 --> 01:08:17,030 ones in any significant way on this 1512 01:08:22,090 --> 01:08:19,310 issue that's something I like to ask 1513 01:08:25,090 --> 01:08:22,100 because there are so many people swept 1514 01:08:27,460 --> 01:08:25,100 up in Trump mania in the conspiracy 1515 01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:27,470 culture and so when it comes to these 1516 01:08:34,780 --> 01:08:32,330 major issues I'm saying well is this par 1517 01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:34,790 for the course or have we changed 1518 01:08:40,090 --> 01:08:37,370 direction and it seems like on all the 1519 01:08:40,420 --> 01:08:40,100 most important stuff it's stay the 1520 01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:40,430 course 1521 01:08:47,620 --> 01:08:43,850 and the only real swamp draining seems 1522 01:08:51,370 --> 01:08:47,630 to be related to personal tit-for-tat 1523 01:08:53,620 --> 01:08:51,380 [\h__\h] in the political circus but anyway 1524 01:08:55,599 --> 01:08:53,630 but anyway we also talked about CRISPR 1525 01:08:59,320 --> 01:08:55,609 technology and how Stephen is quite 1526 01:09:02,440 --> 01:08:59,330 concerned about that as well so really 1527 01:09:03,940 --> 01:09:02,450 good show that I'm proud of one that I 1528 01:09:06,010 --> 01:09:03,950 think you could actually share with 1529 01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:06,020 friends and family because we do stay 1530 01:09:08,770 --> 01:09:07,970 very measured and down-to-earth on this 1531 01:09:11,410 --> 01:09:08,780 one you know 1532 01:09:14,230 --> 01:09:11,420 just the facts ma'am yeah and I really 1533 01:09:17,110 --> 01:09:14,240 like Stephens angle that we do have the 1534 01:09:19,690 --> 01:09:17,120 science and the data on our side we all 1535 01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:19,700 want the public perception to match the 1536 01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:23,330 science right well then get on board 1537 01:09:28,030 --> 01:09:25,850 people because it's not the GMO critics 1538 01:09:30,379 --> 01:09:28,040 that are lying to you it's the GMO 1539 01:09:33,410 --> 01:09:30,389 profit ears 1540 01:09:36,649 --> 01:09:33,420 and that's the bottom line because stone 1541 01:09:39,109 --> 01:09:36,659 cold said so I don't know where that 1542 01:09:42,050 --> 01:09:39,119 came from but it is probably a sign that 1543 01:09:43,999 --> 01:09:42,060 I should call it in thanks for listening 1544 01:09:46,039 --> 01:09:44,009 thanks for all the love and support I 1545 01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:46,049 hope you had a good holiday despite the 1546 01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:47,850 poison food and I'll see you next time 1547 01:09:52,579 --> 01:09:50,250 your move gene splicing science 1548 01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:52,589 suppressors frankenfood facilitators and 1549 01:10:02,050 --> 01:09:55,010 ignorant agents of the corporate machine 1550 01:10:08,410 --> 01:10:02,060 your [\h__\h] have a drink in the smoke 1551 01:10:13,970 --> 01:10:08,420 listen to the cast shiny shiny spotlight 1552 01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:13,980 but criminals on blast the pinstripe man 1553 01:10:23,419 --> 01:10:19,650 of morning and families of Finance do 1554 01:10:28,189 --> 01:10:23,429 Pond Windsor and Rothschild the kids 1555 01:10:31,430 --> 01:10:28,199 don't stand a chance the kids don't the 1556 01:10:35,300 --> 01:10:31,440 kids don't stand the kids don't stand a 1557 01:10:38,330 --> 01:10:35,310 chance I said the kids don't the kids 1558 01:10:43,390 --> 01:10:38,340 don't stand the kids don't stand a 1559 01:10:48,229 --> 01:10:43,400 chance we're looking for the answer to 1560 01:10:53,870 --> 01:10:48,239 questions never asked so we come to the 1561 01:10:58,490 --> 01:10:53,880 car wood for the higher side chat the 1562 01:11:03,280 --> 01:10:58,500 Pinstripe man of morning and families of 1563 01:11:07,939 --> 01:11:03,290 Finance do pawn windsor and Rothschild 1564 01:11:11,390 --> 01:11:07,949 the kids don't stand a chance the kids 1565 01:11:14,810 --> 01:11:11,400 don't the kids don't stand the kids 1566 01:11:18,260 --> 01:11:14,820 don't stand a chance I said the kids 1567 01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:18,270 don't the kids don't stand the kids 1568 01:11:38,850 --> 01:11:19,570 don't stand 1569 01:11:43,530 --> 01:11:38,860 chance involved in shady business we try 1570 01:11:48,750 --> 01:11:43,540 to get a glance we're working on the 1571 01:11:53,089 --> 01:11:48,760 numbers resistance must advance the 1572 01:11:57,540 --> 01:11:53,099 pinstripe man of morning and families of 1573 01:12:02,790 --> 01:11:57,550 Finance DuPont Windsor and Rothschild 1574 01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:02,800 the kids don't stand a chance the kids 1575 01:12:09,660 --> 01:12:06,250 don't the kids don't stand the kids 1576 01:12:13,109 --> 01:12:09,670 don't stand a chance I said the kids 1577 01:12:17,879 --> 01:12:13,119 don't the kids don't stand the kids 1578 01:12:21,149 --> 01:12:17,889 don't stand a chance the kids don't the 1579 01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:21,159 kids don't stand the kids don't stand a 1580 01:12:27,990 --> 01:12:25,090 chance I said the kids don't the kids